challenger motor freight

[elmo]

The Teamsters are launching their campaign to organize Challenger's workers


11-27-2009
EST
Toronto, November 27, 2009 – Today, the Teamsters Union launches its campaign to organize Challenger group workers, which includes Challenger Motor Freight, Elgin Motor Freight, and Lodwick Transport.

After receiving numerous phone calls from Challenger workers, the Teamsters Union decided to set up a team that will enter into contact with them.

"The truckers have had enough of their employer's arbitrary decisions and contacted us since we are the leading union in the road transport industry in Canada," explained Robert Bouvier, president of Teamsters Canada. "Some of these individuals allegedly suffer undue pressure from their bosses; we consider this to be unacceptable behavior that will be corrected in the very near future."

It also seems that the workers of the three trucking companies have not received a pay increase since 2003 and also have no retirement plan.

"The strength of our union enables us to bargain working conditions that are the envy of workers in all industries," added the Teamsters Canada’s president. "More than 20,000 workers have understood this and have joined us over the past few years. There are surely reasons for this."

Several elements of the non-monetary and work organization clauses are said to be at the heart of the dispute between Challenger, Elgin, and Lodwick and their workers, in particular forced dispatch, seniority, and switches.

"These workers are the basis for the success of these companies and they deserve respect," advised Robert Bouvier. "The success of a trucking company is not built in the offices of top management, but rather on board its trucks."

The campaign, which begins this morning, affects nearly 1,500 workers in all areas of Canada.

The Teamsters union represents tens of thousands of truckers in North America and has hundreds of local unions in the United States and Canada.

Teamsters Canada has launched a bilingual informational website for workers at Challenger, Elgin, and Lodwick. The site can be accessed at ............. see belowThe Teamsters Union represents 125,000 members in Canada in all trades. The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, with which Teamsters Canada is affiliated, has 1.4 million members in North America.


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[Pipeman]

Good!!!! I don't have anything against prosperity.

[Gummiente]

This will be an interesting scenario to keep an eye on. I get the impression there's not too many unionised trucking companies in Canada, so this could open the floodgates if the Teamsters are successful.

[maan]

Buzz job's gonna be thrilled ..lol

[liner]

About 3 months ago one of the "higher ups" at Challenger asked me if I had heard anything about some drivers trying to organize, and at that time I had not.I was told that there were a few employees making noise about joining the Teamsters .We have a few "wing-nuts" around there and these were the ones talking union.

I never have and never will have any use for any union,Teamsters or otherwise,so they will never get dime one out of my pockets. I guess they are hard up to get anyone to sign a union card since there membership has been falling for years,but to try and organize an over the road longhaul company is just plain stupid and will never work.

How many union trucking companies are left in Canada today compared to back in the 70's and 80's.If the teamsters are so great why did all these union jobs disappear.Join a union and price yourself right out of a job.Look no further than all the unemployed auto workers..need I say more.

In my opinion the teamsters will never organize Challenger as long as Dan owns the place.

[maan]

to try and organize an over the road longhaul company is just plain stupid and will never work Same in the States?

[Pipeman]

Remember 1 thing Liner,

Out of all the Union Contracts signed by ANY 2 parties. One of the party is the employer. It makes you wonder why they would agree to a contract that will break them.

[maan]

I think if you work in a union shop, you don't have any choice about paying dues, though you don't necessarily have to sign up; but then you would lose some benefits (like death..) you may be entitled to.

I also think it's up to the workers to decide by a majority vote if they want a Union regardless of what an Employer may want. Once/if the Union gets in, then comes a first collective agreement.

[Mercenary]

Such a touchy subject. On the one hand people see unions as a detriment to a company making money. On the other there are still company abuses brought on to drivers.

A union and a contract usually level the playing field. Most of us can agree that the current system of company drivers and O/O's running down the road is broken and needs to be repaired. Low rates, increased red tape, and maverick truckers all take their toll on the good companies out there. If it takes a bunch of new unions to fix the issues then I am all for it.

However I don't believe that it is that simple. It takes two to tango. I was a part of a union for 5 years in my Millwright days. There were abuses on both sides of the table. I heard a lot of 'thats not my job' and a general overall feeling of ill will towards the company who was always the bad guy no matter what. The company wasn't made up of saints either but it seemed that nothing they could do was ever right.

One thing is for sure. I made the most money I have ever made in my life in a union environment. Nice benefits and an excellent pension plan. That said, that all went away when the company shut the doors. Was that the unions fault? One could argue quite successfully that it was due to the overall drop in demand of newsprint (We were a paper mill) but I am sure the high wages and benefits played a big part in the companies demise.

We also had a good grievance system as well. If the union member felt he was wronged in some way then he could grieve it and go from there. Lots of times the problems were BS, just some clown trying to get free money. These grievances wouldn't get past the first step. However there were some doozies that were won through the process and it worked at the time.

Unionizing is a solution. Is it the RIGHT one.....well time will tell.

[ralph]

It'll NEVER happen...truck drivers couldn't agree on the weather if they were ALL standing outside @ Challenger's terminal, so no way they are going to agree on this.

Dan has NO worries regarding this!


Seems odd that the teamsters are trying to organize all the Canadian Challenger divisions/entities but one...

[hotshoe36]

I am an ex-union driver. What I know about the Teamsters is that, whatever they say, the long-term effect of organizing will be that everyone pays the union. For the members it will be mandatory, and for management it will just be good business to grease the ever-corruptible union bosses, so as to keep the drivers down. That is how it works out here.

[liner]

Seems odd that the teamsters are trying to organize all the Canadian Challenger divisions/entities but one...

Guess we will all have to go haul garbage............since they seem to be happy over at that division.LOL

[bikerboy]

looks like sandrock and cam hiltz might be left out

[ralph]

Guess we will all have to go haul garbage............since they seem to be happy over at that division.LOL



You'd look really good draggin' a 6 legger to Carlton Farms Liner!

[buzzy]

Buzz job's gonna be thrilled ..lol

Why would you say that! I have nothing to do with Dan's company

[Annie]

You know, as bad as this might sound, if they actually do this. This may change a few things. I remember when I started in this industry "DEREGULATION", I have heard it time and time again. As much as Teamsters may not be a good idea, if the get in, hmmmm, let the independants think of how some things may change in a good way.

[ratfink]

Trucking has changed and will change again.
deregulation was not a bad thing, the problem was that they left out the drivers.
Union at that time were protecting the wages witch were pretty good at the time.
The problem was that way too many companies were treating drivers as subcontractors and they had that nasty habit of cutting the driver's pay to be competitive (cut rates).
The driver could always make money by running more miles. Illegaly but could always get away with it.
But today, with the HOS beeing more and more enforced, it's getting difficult to make a decent pay.
If you want to make more you have to be willing to be available 7 day a week and be willing to recap all over the place. That means 36 hrs sitting in a truckstop instead of home.

Ok if they're not satisfied they could always leave but with time, this attitude turned against drivers. companies were complaining that drivers were not reliable since they jump ship all the time.
Some companies are pushing the limits and drivers have nowhere to go for help.

[Mercenary]

I don't know how it is in other parts of the country but truckers here have a couple of good options if they feel that the highway BS is getting too thick. Chip hauling, ore hauling, and even hog fuel hauling is quite prevalent in my area here. These are usually good paying jobs where you are home every day or every couple of days anyway.

Ore hauling from Kemess mine would be my job of choice right now. There are rules that you have to abide by but the pay is excellent and the trucks look to be well maintained. Lomak is also a union company.

[ratfink]

Youre right, there still a lot of other options, and thats what a lot of drivers are doing..
I'm not surprised that drivers from companies like cmf are asking unions to help.
Even if it all looks good from the outside, I suspect a lot are not too happy. They have no protection, no senority etc.
Union might not be the best option but maybe it's a wake up call from drivers.

[MHL1965]

I can speak on this one quite easily. I spent time at Challenger, and I also was a Teamster Union Steward at Verspeeten in Whitby.

First off, Challenger isn't the worst trucking company out there and guys were treated pretty decent. No raises suck, but last I looked there was a recession on. Second, as someone who has been OTR for the last 3 years now, I can say someone has to stand up for highway driver at some point. Challenger is pretty libreal on guys getting home, doesn't jack people around too much but is a little chintzy on miles BUT it still doesn't mitigate the fact OTR drivers work for FAR less for the amount of time spent than any other job in North America. We spend 7 to 10 days or more on average driviing 10 to 11 hours a day, MORE if we are with companies who don't give a rat's behind about our logs and we have to stay at to keep the bills paid.

Being paid by the mile is a noose around all our necks. Being forced out away from home for 2 weeks plus with no compensation for that lost family time isn't right either. Could the Challenger's of this world pay more? Yes..I think so, but I am not sure the Teamsters can do it. I think they have bit off more than they can chew on this one. That said, unlike the CAW, I don't think they would screw Challenger to the mat every contract either. Unlike Buzz Hargrove's boys in the CAW, choking the golden goose isn't how the Canadian Teamster's work.

I was not a big union fan before I was pushed into the Teamsters at Verspeeten Cartage. There was a company that deserved a union for their medieval driver relations, and we managed to not do much before GM started cutting back and the Whitby Yard became redundant. I am not sure how well the Teamsters are doing out of the Ingersoll operation, but the Teamster's greatest weakness is certain locals are suckups or lame in their representation to the company. My local up here (938) was not, but we didn't file grievances that were jokes either. We tried our best to do right by the guys and the company in the sense we were not wasting everyone's time.

If Challenger gets a union, I hope it works that way. I don't think Challenger deserves to be unionized, but I do think they could be profitable with one too.

My feeling is the whole industry needs a kick in the butt. We drivers dont' seem to grasp we have been made the last man in a game of crack the whip and we are getting whipped. A few Unions scaring the hell out of management in a few companies might do the common driver's lot in life a lot of good. God knows the people I work for haven't given us a raise in 5 years either....and I KNOW they could afford it...

[maan]

Why would you say that! I have nothing to do with Dan's company
Pulling your chain.:nenernener:

[Pipeman]

I can speak on this one quite easily. I spent time at Challenger, and I also was a Teamster Union Steward at Verspeeten in Whitby.

First off, Challenger isn't the worst trucking company out there and guys were treated pretty decent. No raises suck, but last I looked there was a recession on. Second, as someone who has been OTR for the last 3 years now, I can say someone has to stand up for highway driver at some point. Challenger is pretty libreal on guys getting home, doesn't jack people around too much but is a little chintzy on miles BUT it still doesn't mitigate the fact OTR drivers work for FAR less for the amount of time spent than any other job in North America. We spend 7 to 10 days or more on average driviing 10 to 11 hours a day, MORE if we are with companies who don't give a rat's behind about our logs and we have to stay at to keep the bills paid.

Being paid by the mile is a noose around all our necks. Being forced out away from home for 2 weeks plus with no compensation for that lost family time isn't right either. Could the Challenger's of this world pay more? Yes..I think so, but I am not sure the Teamsters can do it. I think they have bit off more than they can chew on this one. That said, unlike the CAW, I don't think they would screw Challenger to the mat every contract either. Unlike Buzz Hargrove's boys in the CAW, choking the golden goose isn't how the Canadian Teamster's work.

I was not a big union fan before I was pushed into the Teamsters at Verspeeten Cartage. There was a company that deserved a union for their medieval driver relations, and we managed to not do much before GM started cutting back and the Whitby Yard became redundant. I am not sure how well the Teamsters are doing out of the Ingersoll operation, but the Teamster's greatest weakness is certain locals are suckups or lame in their representation to the company. My local up here (938) was not, but we didn't file grievances that were jokes either. We tried our best to do right by the guys and the company in the sense we were not wasting everyone's time.

If Challenger gets a union, I hope it works that way. I don't think Challenger deserves to be unionized, but I do think they could be profitable with one too.

My feeling is the whole industry needs a kick in the butt. We drivers dont' seem to grasp we have been made the last man in a game of crack the whip and we are getting whipped. A few Unions scaring the hell out of management in a few companies might do the common driver's lot in life a lot of good. God knows the people I work for haven't given us a raise in 5 years either....and I KNOW they could afford it...

Larry McDonald is the BA for 938 isn't he? Or is he the President?

Problem with OTR with mileage pay can be sorted out as follows:

Work 100 hours

Log 70

Get Paid 50

[maan]

Sounds like the pits. Some lifestyle.

These folks got goosed good.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/679226
Nothing going on there now.

[MHL1965]

Larry McDonald is the BA for 938 isn't he? Or is he the President?

Problem with OTR with mileage pay can be sorted out as follows:

Work 100 hours

Log 70

Get Paid 50

Larry was the President when I was there. Good man, even if I am not a big Union guy or in any real way a leftie. Larry was legit as far as I could tell.

AS for the your Pay example, that pretty much sums it up. We live in the truck for 6 days, get paid what we think is ok money, but we pay a hell of a price in health, sleep and the loss of time with our families.

[Pipeman]

Larry was the President when I was there. Good man, even if I am not a big Union guy or in any real way a leftie. Larry was legit as far as I could tell.

AS for the your Pay example, that pretty much sums it up. We live in the truck for 6 days, get paid what we think is ok money, but we pay a hell of a price in health, sleep and the loss of time with our families.

I've known Larry for about 40 years and yes, he is a good man.

Another guy that's come a long ways from when he was in Winnipeg is Ed Hawrysh. Ed and Larry are good friends.

[Mr Bee]

How many business travelers only get payed only when they are producing. If a construction worker is forced to work away from their home office, they are compensated for meals, accommodation and additional expenses. And they sleep in motels with actual running water, not on a mattress in the back of the work vehicle.

How many truck drivers make 25 to 30 dollars an hour, plus meals and lodging? Most people make a living working a 40 hour work week. Truckers seem to have to work twice that to make the same living.

Isn't is time we take a look at the time spent and compensation packages? An hourly rate for line four would be a start. We should be compensated for reset time, should the carrier not be able to get you home.

If you are caught in a traffic cluster jam, or a road closure, you are the one losing, not the carrier. When our income is dependent on wheels turning, and they are rolling slowly or stopped, we lose again. What about uncontrollable issues such as blown tires or mechanical break downs? Most of us get to sit around and wait, again without compensation. An O/O being his/her small business person, has to suck it up, but should a company driver?

Just a few things to ponder.

[Pipeman]

How many business travelers only get payed only when they are producing. If a construction worker is forced to work away from their home office, they are compensated for meals, accommodation and additional expenses. And they sleep in motels with actual running water, not on a mattress in the back of the work vehicle.

How many truck drivers make 25 to 30 dollars an hour, plus meals and lodging? Most people make a living working a 40 hour work week. Truckers seem to have to work twice that to make the same living.

Isn't is time we take a look at the time spent and compensation packages? An hourly rate for line four would be a start. We should be compensated for reset time, should the carrier not be able to get you home.

If you are caught in a traffic cluster jam, or a road closure, you are the one losing, not the carrier. When our income is dependent on wheels turning, and they are rolling slowly or stopped, we lose again. What about uncontrollable issues such as blown tires or mechanical break downs? Most of us get to sit around and wait, again without compensation. An O/O being his/her small business person, has to suck it up, but should a company driver?

Just a few things to ponder.Any work performed in the oilpatch and pipeline construction including pipe hauling is paid by the hours PLUS subsistence allowance from $55.00 a day plus reasonable cost of a hotel room or in some cases $150.00 a day 7 days a week even if you only work 5 or 6 in Western Canada. Starting rate would be in the area of $25.00 to as high as $35.00 plus overtime after 8/40

[Mercenary]

Its a wonder to me why most folks don't drive locally. I know these jobs aren't a dime a dozen but there has to be some local jobs for folks looking for a more stable lifestyle.

It sounds harsh and its never going to happen, but if there was a mass exodus of OTR drivers out of the industry then perhaps someone might notice.

[Mr Bee]

Any work performed in the oilpatch and pipeline construction including pipe hauling is paid by the hours PLUS subsistence allowance from $55.00 a day plus reasonable cost of a hotel room or in some cases $150.00 a day 7 days a week even if you only work 5 or 6 in Western Canada. Starting rate would be in the area of $25.00 to as high as $35.00 plus overtime after 8/40
Great example, Pipeman. Thank you.

Mercenary, I don't know about where you live, but where I am, in southern Ontario, local drivers are only making 16 to 18 dollars per hour. Talk about, being pimped.

[Mercenary]

Where you live does factor in to what kind of wage you can expect that is for sure. However how much money are you really making running OTR? Working long hours away from home and putting up with all sorts of BS might not be worth it.

I don't know what the local companies pay in your area but the hourly wage might only be part of the total compensation package. Benefits, pensions, and other perks can sweeten the deal when you are wanting to be home every day and have weekends off. Sure, there are OTR companies that offer the same kinds of deals but I would suppose being home every day might be worth more to some than others.

[MHL1965]

I told my current employer to shove it today. He wanted me to run to Edmonton, leaving Friday AM for a Monday AM delivery. Actually, wanted me to be loaded Thursday night, but due to his favourite dispatcher's inept organization, the trailer wasn't ready. Somehow that was my fault. I told him get someone else, since my wife didn't want me running to Edmonton this close to Christmas since she expected me home Christmas eve. Her attitude would have been so much better if 500 bucks was offered, or a better attitude was given to me for not having left yet. They always forget emergencies on their part don't mean it is MY emergency. I would have had to run an illegal log pretty much to get home. THAT shouldn't be a gun to a driver's head in this industry, yet it happens a lot.

That said, it didn't happen when I was at Challenger. I think the Teamsters are pushing for something that is just not really doable. I don't believe there is anything close to the dissent required to get enough votes at Challenger.

Where I left on the other hand...lol...well I may call up one of Larry's organizers.

However, I am out of a job. I would love to find something local, but where I am in Southern Ontario, even day jobs are hard to swing....and highway jobs? Well lets just say my wife told me it is time to make a career change. She isn't wrong..I should....

IN Europe, all drivers are paid by the hour, and a flat rate is paid to be out over night. If drivers here were compensated like in Europe, freight shippers would be paying probably 50% more minimum, but I think too bad....the trucking companies have cut to the bone...our bone...and I am pretty tired of it.

[Mercenary]

Well you have to do what you have to do. Was he insisting that you take the load, or was he asking you to do him a favor by making the run out west? Did you specifically request to have Christmas off? Was it reasonable on his part to expect you to make the run as part as your regular duties?

Sometimes Christmas is just another day to many industries. Unless a driver specifically requests the time off, it could be difficult keeping the boss at work and the boss at home happy.

[MHL1965]

Well you have to do what you have to do. Was he insisting that you take the load, or was he asking you to do him a favor by making the run out west? Did you specifically request to have Christmas off? Was it reasonable on his part to expect you to make the run as part as your regular duties?

Sometimes Christmas is just another day to many industries. Unless a driver specifically requests the time off, it could be difficult keeping the boss at work and the boss at home happy.

I turned the load down earlier on Thursday. We have an expectation of Christmas off at our company. It surely wouldn't be an shouldn't be assumed that a driver would want it. I told him I had to be home by Christmas Eve. To do what he wanted me to do would have been some pretty fancy messing around with the logs. We may all do it here and there, but He didn't exactly ask me nicely, and I thought that was enough and I let him have it..

I have missed just about part of or all of almost every long weekend going, plus mother's day the last two years and fathers day. I worked New Years last year. I am home on average about 34 hours barely most weeks..not always when My wife is off. I have given all he is going to get....

[maan]

Sounds like OTR driving is a recipe for divorce.

[MHL1965]

Sounds like OTR driving is a recipe for divorce.
It can be if your wife isn't an independent woman anyhow. It wasn't going to be for me. I have a good woman behind me and she knew this was a means to an end. I just made the end Friday December 18,2009.

[ratfink]

The problem with trucking companies now is that they are telling drivers that they are expected to be ready 24 hr 7 days a week.

They think that if you have hrs left on your log book you should be available no matter what.
The larger the company the more dependant they are on a " dispatch system" that takes out all human input.
youre not a driver anymore you are just a unit number.

[Mercenary]

Well, what is it going to take to get these people to 'Get it'?

If ever there was an industry that needed a radical transformation the trucking industry is it.

[ratfink]

Maybe drivers were fed up and used the union to give them a good slap across the face and wake them up.

cmf's been so busy showing off theyre trophys, it's not just about trophy's and image, it's also about people.

Union might not be the best solution but is there any other way they can get companies like challenger or any other for that matter to stop and listen to drivers?

You think drivers got chalenger's attention now?

[Mr Bee]

Where you live does factor in to what kind of wage you can expect that is for sure. However how much money are you really making running OTR? Working long hours away from home and putting up with all sorts of BS might not be worth it.

I don't know what the local companies pay in your area but the hourly wage might only be part of the total compensation package. Benefits, pensions, and other perks can sweeten the deal when you are wanting to be home every day and have weekends off. Sure, there are OTR companies that offer the same kinds of deals but I would suppose being home every day might be worth more to some than others.
A number of years ago, a study was done, taking a drivers total on duty time, totals of lines 3 and 4 plus hours waiting, verses their income, and came up with an hourly rate of $17.50 per hour. Now, that was 10 or more years ago. Drivers rates haven't changed much since then.

I would like to see some drivers here, keep track of ALL of their hours, off the record of course, both on duty and time spent waiting and actually calculate what their hourly rate of pay would be.

Some people will use a number of 40 cent per mile times 60 miles per hour and claim they are making $24 per hour. If you factor in pre trip, post trip, fuel time, loading docks, unscheduled maintenance and time spent waiting for dispatch to make a decision, $24 on hour takes quite a beating.

[ratfink]

Sometimes it's not only about how much one,s make.
take dispatchers, planners driver managers call them whatever you like.
Some of those people will waste your time and with the HOS you cant have your hours wasted by carelessness, incompetence or even sometimes just because the guy has an ax to grind with you.

Those people at 4pm or whenever theyre shift ends get out and go home.
you're on 24 hrs and they dont give a rats rear end about where you are.

[bikerboy]

i would have quit too, thats BS wanting you to run illegal to get home in time for christmas, i am working all through christmas and newyears this year, but thats my choice, and i will still be home every day anyway. And my job can't wait till another day, unlike yours bosses load, which could wait, but he won't wait, cuz all he cares about is the money!

[1-800-bigtruck]

Sounds like this was coming for a while , and this is what broke the camels back.
you probably could have refused the load without quiting but I 'm not you ,and wasn't there . , that's why I can't see me working for a big outfit . It should be a given with any company that we are home for the Christmas season , Enjoy your time off over Christmas and New years with your wife and family , and hopfully you'll find something suited for you real soon in the new year .

[Mercenary]

It should be a given with any company that we are home for the Christmas season
Or at least work with the drivers and find out who doesn't mind working during the holidays. There might be guys around who don't really mind working during Christmas.

My last year at the paper mill I worked Christmas. It was double time and a half (65 bucks an hour) you got 8 hours time in lieu, and it was triple time after 8 hours (12 hr shifts) That pay was big money. I didn't mind as my wife and I have no kids and I was home at 6 pm anyway.

[1-800-bigtruck]

Or at least work with the drivers and find out who doesn't mind working during the holidays. There might be guys around who don't really mind working during Christmas.

My last year at the paper mill I worked Christmas. It was double time and a half (65 bucks an hour) you got 8 hours time in lieu, and it was triple time after 8 hours (12 hr shifts) That pay was big money. I didn't mind as my wife and I have no kids and I was home at 6 pm anyway.

Yes ,I stand corrected, comunication would and does go a long way ,. working at a factory is totally different also , and you're still home . been there done that .

[maan]

Then there's the health & safety aspect that comes into it.. push push push fatigue.. is an invitation for mistakes/accidents.

Then of course it's the drivers fault If the books aren't right or even knowingly driving fatigued. You can have legal hrs but still not be fit to drive.

I work nights & hasn't happened in a long time but hate(d) when fighting fatigue (& I'm talking lights out while driving scenarios) that is considered the same as being impaired.

I'm lucky on a fixed schedule with plenty of time to recover but still takes alot out of me & can't mess with getting that sleep in.. & making it a #1 priority.

Actually found out I have sleep apnea & need a cpap machine now to sleep properly.

Anyone that snores or feels fatigued with what seems like proper sleep should check it out forthwith & we are lucky here in that OHIP covers most of it; the total cost so far for the tests & machine was about 3.5k bucks.

Gotta go for a re-test (~1k) soon.

[Pipeman]

I turned the load down earlier on Thursday. We have an expectation of Christmas off at our company. It surely wouldn't be an shouldn't be assumed that a driver would want it. I told him I had to be home by Christmas Eve. To do what he wanted me to do would have been some pretty fancy messing around with the logs. We may all do it here and there, but He didn't exactly ask me nicely, and I thought that was enough and I let him have it..

I have missed just about part of or all of almost every long weekend going, plus mother's day the last two years and fathers day. I worked New Years last year. I am home on average about 34 hours barely most weeks..not always when My wife is off. I have given all he is going to get....

Good for you!! Nice to see someone with balls. I can guarantee that there isn't a single carrier that would have to balls to put down in writing for you to cheat on your log sheets just to make him happy.

[Pipeman]

A number of years ago, a study was done, taking a drivers total on duty time, totals of lines 3 and 4 plus hours waiting, verses their income, and came up with an hourly rate of $17.50 per hour. Now, that was 10 or more years ago. Drivers rates haven't changed much since then.

I would like to see some drivers here, keep track of ALL of their hours, off the record of course, both on duty and time spent waiting and actually calculate what their hourly rate of pay would be.

Some people will use a number of 40 cent per mile times 60 miles per hour and claim they are making $24 per hour. If you factor in pre trip, post trip, fuel time, loading docks, unscheduled maintenance and time spent waiting for dispatch to make a decision, $24 on hour takes quite a beating.Like I posted elsewherre:


Work 100 hours a week

Log 70

Get paid for 50.

[Pipeman]

A number of years ago, a study was done, taking a drivers total on duty time, totals of lines 3 and 4 plus hours waiting, verses their income, and came up with an hourly rate of $17.50 per hour. Now, that was 10 or more years ago. Drivers rates haven't changed much since then.

I would like to see some drivers here, keep track of ALL of their hours, off the record of course, both on duty and time spent waiting and actually calculate what their hourly rate of pay would be.

Some people will use a number of 40 cent per mile times 60 miles per hour and claim they are making $24 per hour. If you factor in pre trip, post trip, fuel time, loading docks, unscheduled maintenance and time spent waiting for dispatch to make a decision, $24 on hour takes quite a beating.

60 miles per hour is extremely high for an average, 50 is a lot closer to reality.

[Pipeman]

Or at least work with the drivers and find out who doesn't mind working during the holidays. There might be guys around who don't really mind working during Christmas.

My last year at the paper mill I worked Christmas. It was double time and a half (65 bucks an hour) you got 8 hours time in lieu, and it was triple time after 8 hours (12 hr shifts) That pay was big money. I didn't mind as my wife and I have no kids and I was home at 6 pm anyway.

When I was still single, I would tell dispatch to run me on Christmas/New Years etc. Knowing full well that the married drivers with kids would appreciate being at home.

The carrier that I worked for use to discuss the holiday situation at least 3 to 4 weeks ahead of time.

[Mr Bee]

60 miles per hour is extremely high for an average, 50 is a lot closer to reality.
You're right Pipeman, 60 is a high number, but that's the number that seems to get thrown around. I used it as an example.

[maan]

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/afl/LabourNews/march11-03.html

[ratfink]

Hummm thats interesting,
I'm not too warm about unions but when you think about what happened in our industry
(now you have to be in it long enough to remember what happenned)
We saw companies get rid of unions using agencys, leasing companies etc.
the salaries were cut drasticly since then.
bit by bit companies grinded the salaries so they could compete with each other and today we see the results.
Maybe after more than 25 years of pay cut it's about time someone comes up with a way to regulate the salaries.

Now who can do that? gov wont touch this with a 10 ft pole.
Associations will never be heavy enough to put pressure on anybody.

So who's left?
Maybe its not as bad as it looks.

[MHL1965]

Hummm thats interesting,
I'm not too warm about unions but when you think about what happened in our industry
(now you have to be in it long enough to remember what happenned)
We saw companies get rid of unions using agencys, leasing companies etc.
the salaries were cut drasticly since then.
bit by bit companies grinded the salaries so they could compete with each other and today we see the results.
Maybe after more than 25 years of pay cut it's about time someone comes up with a way to regulate the salaries.

Now who can do that? gov wont touch this with a 10 ft pole.
Associations will never be heavy enough to put pressure on anybody.

So who's left?
Maybe its not as bad as it looks.

You figured it out. I wasn't a big union guy in the past. I vote conservatively more often than not, and I don't want to see the unions everywhere, but in trucking, it is clear that if the government is going to allow it to be a nasty nasty place for us drivers, then the threat of a union is our last alternative.

The Teamsters are a trucking union, and I think if they unionized part of the industry, it might drive wages back up. Right now, I don't see any hope for the OTR community to get ahead. Where I was hadn't given a raise out in five years I heard.....I had only been there two when I left. THat was an irritant that is always under the surface. It is likely why the Teamsters think they have some chance with Challenger. Personally, I think from my time there they may get Elgin or Lodwick, but not the parent company.

There needs to be a change for the common driver. Right now, it just isn't an occupation I would want to recommend as a career and that is a shame.

[Mule Bleue]

You figured it out. I wasn't a big union guy in the past. I vote conservatively more often than not, and I don't want to see the unions everywhere, but in trucking, it is clear that if the government is going to allow it to be a nasty nasty place for us drivers, then the threat of a union is our last alternative.

The Teamsters are a trucking union, and I think if they unionized part of the industry, it might drive wages back up. Right now, I don't see any hope for the OTR community to get ahead. Where I was hadn't given a raise out in five years I heard.....I had only been there two when I left. THat was an irritant that is always under the surface. It is likely why the Teamsters think they have some chance with Challenger. Personally, I think from my time there they may get Elgin or Lodwick, but not the parent company.

There needs to be a change for the common driver. Right now, it just isn't an occupation I would want to recommend as a career and that is a shame.<
Hi I seriouly think that we are now in a perfect storm situation; it's now or never, rates can go lower, work will p/u soon, so it's time for us the driver an O/O to take the bull by the horn an go ahead with UNION. It is imperative that we take that oportunity, not only the Challenger group of compagny but the whole industrie coast to coast GO GO GO GO ahead with the union. In 12 month it will be tool late. So folk if over the next month we do not take ourself then in the future when things won't change then we all sould shut our mouth an not complaint about the situation!!!:18_1_35[1]::23_11_60:

[Pipeman]

<
Hi I seriouly think that we are now in a perfect storm situation; it's now or never, rates can go lower, work will p/u soon, so it's time for us the driver an O/O to take the bull by the horn an go ahead with UNION. It is imperative that we take that oportunity, not only the Challenger group of compagny but the whole industrie coast to coast GO GO GO GO ahead with the union. In 12 month it will be tool late. So folk if over the next month we do not take ourself then in the future when things won't change then we all sould shut our mouth an not complaint about the situation!!!:18_1_35[1]::23_11_60:

I have owned 3 trucking companies that were teamster certfified. I've done well and so did my employees.

However, there are a lot of drivers and Owner Operators that have something against prosperity.

[maan]

I don't get it but then dunno what it's about.

[RodeoJoe]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've never been paid more and never had better benefits as when I worked union. I'm now collecting a Teamster pension (BC Local 213) and that's the only one (other than gov't pensions), none of the non-union outfits I ever worked for even thought enough about their employees to consider pension plans. I, too, have owned Teamster certified companies and like Pipeman, done well because of it.

[Pipeman]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I've never been paid more and never had better benefits as when I worked union. I'm now collecting a Teamster pension (BC Local 213) and that's the only one (other than gov't pensions), none of the non-union outfits I ever worked for even thought enough about their employees to consider pension plans. I, too, have owned Teamster certified companies and like Pipeman, done well because of it.

When I sold PipeX, I was also bound by a 213 Agreement. Always got along well with Don McGill.

[ratfink]

You see, you guys are well off because of union.
how many drivers have a pension plan out there?

The companies like to look good and everything but what do they offer?
I guess Mr Einwechter should lead and set an example. LOL
Will he have a choice? time will tell.

[Pipeman]

Even if they were to get drivers from Agencies, it still won't cut it.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/cirb/doc/2002/2002canlii53075/2002canlii53075.html

It was about 10 years ago that MacKie Moving & Storage tried that with Teamsters Local 938.

When it comes to agency drivers and owner operators that are leased on to MacKie, they are considered employees.

To make it short, what the Judge said was that the plates are Mackie's, the insurance is MacKie's, The trailer is Mackie's, the truck is dispatched by Mackie, the fuel and ,many other expenses are purchased thru MacKie's, the operator cannot use his truck to work elsewhere, etc. etc. etc. What it amounts to is that company employees, agency drivers, lease operators etc, when told to JUMP by MacKie, go ahead and jump and simply ask how high on the way up. They are all under direct control of the employer.

Here's just a short little tidbit about it:
all employees of Mackie Moving Systems Corporation working in and out of the provinces of Quebec and Ontario, including directly-employed drivers, drivers referred by employment agencies working for Mackie and in respect of whom Mackie exercises fundamental control, owner operators and/or brokers, drivers for owner operators and/or brokers who provide transport services only to Mackie, excluding employees in the Pitney Bowes Contract Division, the Lear Seating Contract drivers referred to Mackie by Adams Services, brokers and their drivers whose operations or situation are found by the Board to be more discreet and who do not fully share a community of interest with employees in the bargaining unit, the Auto Hauling Maritimes employees, the Household Goods “A” (Extra provincial) Division employees, and also excluding dispatchers, office and sales staff, supervisors and those above.




233Teamsters Local Union 938 is certified for the appropriate unit. In view of the complexity of the facts and issues discussed herein the Board expressly retains jurisdiction in this matter.

[MHL1965]

Even if they were to get drivers from Agencies, it still won't cut it.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/cirb/doc/2002/2002canlii53075/2002canlii53075.html

It was about 10 years ago that MacKie Moving & Storage tried that with Teamsters Local 938.

When it comes to agency drivers and owner operators that are leased on to MacKie, they are considered employees.

To make it short, what the Judge said was that the plates are Mackie's, the insurance is MacKie's, The trailer is Mackie's, the truck is dispatched by Mackie, the fuel and ,many other expenses are purchased thru MacKie's, the operator cannot use his truck to work elsewhere, etc. etc. etc. What it amounts to is that company employees, agency drivers, lease operators etc, when told to JUMP by MacKie, go ahead and jump and simply ask how high on the way up. They are all under direct control of the employer.

Here's just a short little tidbit about it:
all employees of Mackie Moving Systems Corporation working in and out of the provinces of Quebec and Ontario, including directly-employed drivers, drivers referred by employment agencies working for Mackie and in respect of whom Mackie exercises fundamental control, owner operators and/or brokers, drivers for owner operators and/or brokers who provide transport services only to Mackie, excluding employees in the Pitney Bowes Contract Division, the Lear Seating Contract drivers referred to Mackie by Adams Services, brokers and their drivers whose operations or situation are found by the Board to be more discreet and who do not fully share a community of interest with employees in the bargaining unit, the Auto Hauling Maritimes employees, the Household Goods “A” (Extra provincial) Division employees, and also excluding dispatchers, office and sales staff, supervisors and those above.




233Teamsters Local Union 938 is certified for the appropriate unit. In view of the complexity of the facts and issues discussed herein the Board expressly retains jurisdiction in this matter.

It wasn't just Mackies that was covered under this labour board dictate. It was also Verspeeten Cartage, who were in bed with Mackie's doing some of this stuff.

Mackie tried to muddy the water when I was there, by actually having Union sign up cards for the CAW in our mailboxs. Since the Teamsters already had the Mackies infront of the labour board, this obviously was an attempt to muddy the waters, and of course the idiot CAW was happy to go along.

I was a proud member of Teamsters Local 938, not so much because I am in love with Unions, but they stuck it right to two arrogant and well off companies who were doing their best to skirt the law.

I suspect Dan Einwechter will react in a more enlightened fashion. AS I said, I don't think Challenger is even close to the worst company out there and deserving of a union to be shoved upon them.

[ratfink]

I don't think Challenger is even close to the worst company out there and deserving of a union to be shoved upon them.

I agree about not beeing the worse out there, but at the same time, things changed in the last couples of years.
challenger had to adjust and become like the others.
I heard a lot of negative things about drivers beeing sent to safety manager for just about any reason, log book audits, all the dedicated runs beeing cancelled, and that system they have where senority is not respected.

All this will make a bunch of verry unhappy drivers and if you dont listen to them this is what you get.

[red_5.0]

A number of years ago, a study was done, taking a drivers total on duty time, totals of lines 3 and 4 plus hours waiting, verses their income, and came up with an hourly rate of $17.50 per hour. Now, that was 10 or more years ago. Drivers rates haven't changed much since then.

I would like to see some drivers here, keep track of ALL of their hours, off the record of course, both on duty and time spent waiting and actually calculate what their hourly rate of pay would be.

Some people will use a number of 40 cent per mile times 60 miles per hour and claim they are making $24 per hour. If you factor in pre trip, post trip, fuel time, loading docks, unscheduled maintenance and time spent waiting for dispatch to make a decision, $24 on hour takes quite a beating.


I always figured I made about $10 an hour working OTR when you take into account every hour away from home. People would say 'you guys make pretty good money just for driving a truck' and my reply would be that I put in the hours of TWO full time jobs to earn it.

I certainly hope that something is done about the poor treatment of employees in the trucking industry. Like many have said before, I'm not sure a union is the answer, but it does seem to be the only group interested in helping the sitution. HRSDC and the like are virtually usesless in enforcing Labour laws and certainly will not impose any kind of mandatory benefits or pension plan. Having been through them twice to collect back wages/unpaid stat holidays etc. takes an incredible amount of time and effort for simple labour issues.

[MHL1965]

The idea of the unions making the companies accountable isn't a bad thing. What people who hate unions always have to keep in mind that the THREAT of being unionized often brings about the change.

[Mr Bee]

I always figured I made about $10 an hour working OTR when you take into account every hour away from home. People would say 'you guys make pretty good money just for driving a truck' and my reply would be that I put in the hours of TWO full time jobs to earn it.

I certainly hope that something is done about the poor treatment of employees in the trucking industry. Like many have said before, I'm not sure a union is the answer, but it does seem to be the only group interested in helping the sitution. HRSDC and the like are virtually usesless in enforcing Labour laws and certainly will not impose any kind of mandatory benefits or pension plan. Having been through them twice to collect back wages/unpaid stat holidays etc. takes an incredible amount of time and effort for simple labour issues.
You are so right, red. I'm not sure that a union would be the answer either. We do, however, need some type of system to put upward pressure on driver compensation. We are all subject to inflationary pressure in our cost of living, and I think it's time rates and driver pay reflected those pressures as well.

[buzzy]

The only way freight rates are going to go up, is to get rid of the load pimps.

70% of freight offered on load boards is offered at less than profitable $ margins.

And companies still jump on freight to run for free.

[bikerboy]

maybe more companies need to be running their own freight brokerage, if guy with no trucks can broker freight, it should be easy for guys WITH trucks to do it, lots of freight for company trucks and then broker out the rest to other companies.

I know some of the bigger companies around here already do have their own freight brokerage, but why not all them?

put the brokers with no trucks out of business!

[maan]

The only way freight rates are going to go up, is to get rid of the load pimps.

70% of freight offered on load boards is offered at less than profitable $ margins.

And companies still jump on freight to run for free.

There will always be load pimps out there ..& hookers.

[maan]

Apologies to the gals .. I should say ladies of the evening. I was thinking more other folks in the trucking biz who hook you in.

[buzzy]

oh, for a minute i thought you was talking about the other vultures in the towing business. :camara:

[Pipeman]

I agree with Buzzy....get rid if the brokerage scums.

Cell phone and $10,000.00 bond and they're in the freight business.

I have never, never, never hauled a load for those scums. My load were always rated from point A to point B and return to A. If I did pickup something at point B that was just gravy.

[Mr Bee]

maybe more companies need to be running their own freight brokerage, if guy with no trucks can broker freight, it should be easy for guys WITH trucks to do it, lots of freight for company trucks and then broker out the rest to other companies.

I know some of the bigger companies around here already do have their own freight brokerage, but why not all them?

put the brokers with no trucks out of business!
BB, a lot of companies already do that (broker loads out). They haul what they want and pass along what they don't, keeping a portion of the revenue of course.

On another note: If I as a broker, have a load that's paying $3 a mile, and I can find some smuck to haul it for $1.50, why would I pay more. The problem here isn't necessarily the broker. It's the guy that agrees to haul it at a loss. But then, that's free enterprise.

[bikerboy]

I agree with Buzzy....get rid if the brokerage scums.

Cell phone and $10,000.00 bond and they're in the freight business.

I have never, never, never hauled a load for those scums. My load were always rated from point A to point B and return to A. If I did pickup something at point B that was just gravy.


thats the way all loads should be priced, so the truck can run home empty if needed, i know alot of tanker loads are still priced that way, because it can be very hard to find a tanker load going back home where you need to go.

the question is, if brokers make so much, for so little work, why don't more people get into it? sounds like a good deal.

[ratfink]

the problem is at the root.
Where can a company cut?
can't cut on equipment, (well to a certain point anyway)
certainly can't cut on insurances.
Cant cut on fuel prices.
Could cut on maintenance but MTO or DOT inspections will make sure they dont.

The only place a company can cut is on the driver's salary and that's what they've been doing for the past 20 years or so.

the problem is that the drivers salary is not regulated I can find a driver who will drive a new Pete or KW for 25 cents a mile.
he maybe wont do it for long but theyre out there.

You wont be able to do anything about load brokers because it's business providing a service to a trucking company, the capitalist system will allow it.
Same thing with the friggin agencies. again a company who provides drivers to a trucking company.

They cut the salary because they can do it.
union contract might not be the best solution, but what else can we do.

[Mercenary]

Not to mention in order to get anywhere in this business you need 2 to 3 years of experience. So the newbies are going to be the guys working for 25 cents a mile because no one will hire them without experience.

[Pipeman]

Turn the Key to the Right Only When the Rate is Right.

[ratfink]

Turn the Key to the Right Only When the Rate is Right.

Easy for us to say but in the case of large companies like cmf, drivers dont have a clue on what is cheap freight.
All they know is that one morning the company will decide that they dont pay things like border crossing anymore like cmf did for example.

Might be only 15 bucks a shot which translates to a couple of thousand bucks a year on lost wages just so the companies can compete with eachother.
The driver always take a hit for that.

you can come up with all the excuse you want to justify such salary cuts, you will end up with a lot of angry drivers.

[bikerboy]

challenger cut the border crossing pay? what kind of bs is that?
they really expect drivers to sit in line for hours for free and if a load fails to clear, go inside and mess around with customs and brokers for hours to clear the load all for free? what a joke OTR trucking is, so glad i work hourly, and do nothing for free!

[ratfink]

Not only border crossing, they also cut break down time, truck or trailer breaks? tuff luck if it takes no matter the amount of hrs..

[maan]

next thing you'll be penalized for taking a dump..

[Pipeman]

next thing you'll be penalized for taking a dump..Take a dump on your own time .

[maan]

No thx .. I prefer as it is, to get paid.

[liner]

challenger cut the border crossing pay? what kind of bs is that?
they really expect drivers to sit in line for hours for free and if a load fails to clear, go inside and mess around with customs and brokers for hours to clear the load all for free? what a joke OTR trucking is, so glad i work hourly, and do nothing for free!

The border crossing pay was only $10 and only on non-fast loads, so its no big loss considering we still get paid for border delays,which have been none existent for several years now.Guys on dedicated runs that cross the border everyday still get the border crossing pay,so maybe a guy might lose 20 bucks a week...big deal,at least hes working and didn't take a big cut in pay like a lot of companies did.
I don't know where guys are spending hours in line or hours to clear a load!If you do things right all loads are pre-released so there should be no reason to be delayed....unless of course they work for some mickey mouse outfit.

[bikerboy]

last year there was a few times i sat in line for four hours in sarnia waiting to cross into the usa, and a few times also had loads fail to clear or had to sit in line at X ray for over an hour.

[maan]

Any such a thing as (paid) sick days?

[liner]

Any such a thing as (paid) sick days?


Now thats funny...you must be a union man LOL.

[MHL1965]

Any such a thing as (paid) sick days?

The only people who usually ask that question are always union people, usually ones who have government jobs. Does that say volumes about what is wrong with this country or what?

The threat of a union is the only way to bring about change, but attacking Challenger will just weaken it at this point. I think the unions should be sniffing around every trucking company. Put enough recruiters on the ground and the industry will get scared. Still doesn't change the pimps who have sliced the rates down to non profitable margins. CH Robinson being one of the most evil.

As for Challenger killing the 10 dollars a crossing on FAST shipments, or the 20 dollars on non-FAST, I know why they did it, but if Livingston or some other idiot broker messes you up with a load coming back into Canada, I wonder if Challenger will still pay for you to sit there? Also, FDA inspections going into the US, is Challenger not going to pay for that lovely 2 hours wasted? I would be asking questions...but I know it was an automatic 20 bucks for me when I crossed the border when I was at Challenger, and for the one time you were held up, you crossed in a hurry the other 9 times, so it paid for itself.....

[liner]

The only people who usually ask that question are always union people, usually ones who have government jobs. Does that say volumes about what is wrong with this country or what?

The threat of a union is the only way to bring about change, but attacking Challenger will just weaken it at this point. I think the unions should be sniffing around every trucking company. Put enough recruiters on the ground and the industry will get scared. Still doesn't change the pimps who have sliced the rates down to non profitable margins. CH Robinson being one of the most evil.

As for Challenger killing the 10 dollars a crossing on FAST shipments, or the 20 dollars on non-FAST, I know why they did it, but if Livingston or some other idiot broker messes you up with a load coming back into Canada, I wonder if Challenger will still pay for you to sit there? Also, FDA inspections going into the US, is Challenger not going to pay for that lovely 2 hours wasted? I would be asking questions...but I know it was an automatic 20 bucks for me when I crossed the border when I was at Challenger, and for the one time you were held up, you crossed in a hurry the other 9 times, so it paid for itself.....

Well, I don't know when you were at Challenger but it has always been $10 and if it was a fast load you got nothing.I just crossed Monday with a FDA load at Detroit and was delayed maybe 15 minutes at most
.In my opinion the border crossing pay was always a joke and the loss of it is a non-issue.

[ratfink]

The border crossing pay was only $10 and only on non-fast loads, so its no big loss considering we still get paid for border delays,which have been none existent for several years now.Guys on dedicated runs that cross the border everyday still get the border crossing pay,so maybe a guy might lose 20 bucks a week...big deal,at least hes working and didn't take a big cut in pay like a lot of companies did.
I don't know where guys are spending hours in line or hours to clear a load!If you do things right all loads are pre-released so there should be no reason to be delayed....unless of course they work for some mickey mouse outfit.


How long ago did they start to pay the border crossing?
if you been there for a while you probably know when and why but if you've been at cmf for a couples of years or hired after they started this, well guess what? nobody told them that this border crossing payments was only temporary.
And at the rate they are wasting drivers thats make a lot of angry people.
Ho by the way I know a bunch of guys who makes lets say 2 camp hills pa from dorval, thats 4 times a week, lets put a 15 bucks a shot to be fair.
Thats 60 $ a week, 4 weeks thats 240$ a month, now again to be fair lets say he does that 10 months out of the year now were at 2400 bucks a year
If you calculate again 2 campshills pa put of dorval is about 2100 miles a week and all you say is that he's lucky to be workin?

ok ok a guy can always do somethin else with more miles right, May I remind you that it a forced dispatch and theres no too many choice.
if you refuse an east coast... meeting with dr Phill in safety for a lecture.

And what dedicated are you talking about? when in the past couples of years did those dedicated runs were advertised and when did the bids occured?

you say "If you do things right all loads are pre-released so there should be no reason to be delayed" now my friend that where we see that you are in your own little world.
Things might be easy for you sir you get to choose whatever run you want and you probably deserve it but that not the world we live in.

[maan]

if you refuse an east coast... meeting with dr Phill in safety for a lecture.
Hmmmm ....

[ratfink]

Hmmmm ....

ho ho I'm now in trouble.... wasn't suppose to talk about that I guess.

Nahhh what the heck, here's some reading I found this morning before I'm accused of badmouthing the compamy.

[maan]

you say "If you do things right all loads are pre-released so there should be no reason to be delayed" now my friend that where we see that you are in your own little world.
Things might be easy for you sir you get to choose whatever run you want and you probably deserve it but that not the world we live in.
I'm assuming this is based on seniority?

[maan]

you, messrs. Challenger, never promise us anything. You impose your so-called benefits, respect and wage increases (when the economy gets better). And if we ask questions or put up any resistance, we may expect reprisals and reprimands, such as one or more days of suspension without pay. Isn’t that right, messrs. Challenger? And when a driver is suspended,

Wth ?! ......

[ratfink]

dont know, I guess the testimony's from an angry driver.
I want to make a ppoint at this time, I'm not what you myght call an union maniac, but I heard horror stories from drivers who ended up in safety office and got intimidated, (wrong coice of words again) ?$&*??%$ I putting myself in trouble again LOL

[maan]

I'm interested in the disciplinary action, on what it based, how it works & is there an appeal process?

[buzzy]

ho ho I'm now in trouble.... wasn't suppose to talk about that I guess.

Nahhh what the heck, here's some reading I found this morning before I'm accused of badmouthing the compamy.

I removed the link as it could be deemed solicitation for the union.

[maan]

Cat's outa the bag & it can also be seen as bias.

[ratfink]

I removed the link as it could be deemed solicitation for the union.

Thats ok, I understand, I didnt put it there to solicitate anything but since the link has allready been posted earlier, I didnt see any problem about it.

Bias? not completely but the more I learn to more the guys are convincing me about why theyre so mad sooooo call it bias I dont mind but I like to make my mind on what everyone has to say, doesn't matter if the guy has only 3 month in the co.

I didnt read anywhere they were asking for more money, just respect.

[ratfink]

oh ok, well I wont get into that kind of politics, LOL
But I'm not looking at union whoever they are, but rather at what drivers has to say.
A company can show me all the awards they want, show me all the fancy chromed trucks they want, all the nice destinations they want, it's all ok as long as the drivers has the right to express himself or herself.

[Pipeman]

oh ok, well I wont get into that kind of politics, LOL
But I'm not looking at union whoever they are, but rather at what drivers has to say.
A company can show me all the awards they want, show me all the fancy chromed trucks they want, all the nice destinations they want, it's all ok as long as the drivers has the right to express himself or herself.And get paid for the work performed.

Not work 100
Logs 70
get paid 50

[ratfink]

And get paid for the work performed.

Not work 100
Logs 70
get paid 50

Well yeah, that's why I go to work.

I work to live, not live to work!

[liner]

How long ago did they start to pay the border crossing?
if you been there for a while you probably know when and why but if you've been at cmf for a couples of years or hired after they started this, well guess what? nobody told them that this border crossing payments was only temporary.
And at the rate they are wasting drivers thats make a lot of angry people.
Ho by the way I know a bunch of guys who makes lets say 2 camp hills pa from dorval, thats 4 times a week, lets put a 15 bucks a shot to be fair.
Thats 60 $ a week, 4 weeks thats 240$ a month, now again to be fair lets say he does that 10 months out of the year now were at 2400 bucks a year
If you calculate again 2 campshills pa put of dorval is about 2100 miles a week and all you say is that he's lucky to be workin?

ok ok a guy can always do somethin else with more miles right, May I remind you that it a forced dispatch and theres no too many choice.
if you refuse an east coast... meeting with dr Phill in safety for a lecture.

And what dedicated are you talking about? when in the past couples of years did those dedicated runs were advertised and when did the bids occured?

you say "If you do things right all loads are pre-released so there should be no reason to be delayed" now my friend that where we see that you are in your own little world.
Things might be easy for you sir you get to choose whatever run you want and you probably deserve it but that not the world we live in.


Border crossing was only $10 so it's only $40 per week and it was always made clear that it was only put in place after 911 when we actually did have longer border delays.We crossed for many years and got nothing so whats the big deal?If your buddies were running 2100 miles a week every week,they were running more miles than a lot of other drivers.There happens to be a recession going on.

Couldn't do anything else because of forced dispatch.....again,drivers are told that when hired so why did they take the job??If they wanted more miles they should have run the east coast loads,rather than visit saftey.

I didn't like the fact that they took it away either but get over it and move on.If things are that bad at CMF why do they work there, is it because they can't find anything better right now!!I'll say it again...at least they have jobs,unlike a large number of other drivers.

[Mule Bleue]

Border crossing was only $10 so it's only $40 per week and it was always made clear that it was only put in place after 911 when we actually did have longer border delays.We crossed for many years and got nothing so whats the big deal?If your buddies were running 2100 miles a week every week,they were running more miles than a lot of other drivers.There happens to be a recession going on.

Couldn't do anything else because of forced dispatch.....again,drivers are told that when hired so why did they take the job??If they wanted more miles they should have run the east coast loads,rather than visit saftey.

I didn't like the fact that they took it away either but get over it and move on.If things are that bad at CMF why do they work there, is it because they can't find anything better right now!!I'll say it again...at least they have jobs,unlike a large number of other drivers.

Liner ok for you but what about the driver wether they are base out of Bc, London, cambridge or Dorval , what about those driver who cross border 4 to six time a week?? did you make the calculation of it , what amount that represent for those guy who don't have a dedicated run like you do?? By the way before 9/11 the border crossing was $6.00. I Know what i'm talking about as i'm one of thoses driver who been hailing to NYC an the trhird world for a while so it is a lot more then $40.00 a week that is missing.

I think that peoples like you who live in a different world then we do are totally disconnected of our reality. What is good for you as you seem to be a very close friend of M. Einweichter is very different to other peoples. Our reality is quite different in Bc an so as Dorval. By the way we don't see you very often in thoses terminal, do you have some privilege that we don't have??

The fact that you are against Teamsters an i presume all the others union also, that's Ok but plse don't spit on peoples that have enough BALLS an COURAGE to stand up an try to improve theirs live an working conditions.
Have a great day

[maan]

Don't care what views there are out there as far as unions go, or other issues, opinions are fair game but as far as I'm concerned, describing Unions as ~ "Terrorist organisations" and or having extreme views on any issues & BEING A MOD on a trucking site IS a conflict of interest.

And a mod adding comments like "let's be professionals" on this site, after expressing their own xtreme views ..give me a break.

[ratfink]

Hummm this seems to be a touchy subject, actualy 2 , unions and challenger.

[maan]

I'd call it a minefield..:36_1_7[1]:

[bikerboy]

I know of one construction company around here, that went union, because the management wanted too, to get more work, So now everyone got a big pay raise, and everyone happys.

[ratfink]

I'd call it a minefield..:36_1_7[1]:

maybe there should ba somekind of warning when someone post something like this post a bit like tv programs.

"WARNING, this thread may contain controversial or disturbing opinions that could offend some people , discression is strongly advised"


Ok ok I'm joking.

[liner]

I think that peoples like you who live in a different world then we do are totally disconnected of our reality. What is good for you as you seem to be a very close friend of M. Einweichter is very different to other peoples. Our reality is quite different in Bc an so as Dorval. By the way we don't see you very often in thoses terminal, do you have some privilege that we don't have??




You have never seen me at those terminals,and you never will! As far as me having privileges that you don't,well all I can say is that after 23 years at CMF that may be true but I also started at the bottom,ran the east coast, the swamp and lots of other garbage for years so I believe that I have earned as you like to say "privileges".I also do not run a dedicated run but I like to run a certain area so they try and keep me in that area as much as possible.

Oh and that $6 that you got,well O/O's never got that so we never missed it.I also don't recall spitting on anyone trying to improve their life,but if you think the teamsters are going to do that for you,then you are badly mistaken.

If life is so bad at CMF then quit, find something better.

[Pipeman]

Hey lienr,

have you ever belonged in a Union or do you just hate them period???

[liner]

Hey lienr,

have you ever belonged in a Union or do you just hate them period???

Paid union dues to the teamsters back in the 80's and swore they would never get another dime out of my pockets,so yes,I just hate them period! In my opinion they have out lived there usefullness or should I say uselessness!!

[Mercenary]

I have found that being a part of a union provides a certain level of respect towards employees that wouldn't necessarily be found in a non union environment.

Trucking needs to be unionized.
Major portions of the oil patch need to be unionized. They get away with murder there.
Places like old folks homes and aged care facilities need unions.

There is still too much employer abuse for us to get rid of unions. Not all of the fights are about money. Fair treatment would go a long way to reduce the complaints from the average worker.

[maan]

If things are bad at Challenger, there is no place else to go, except surely downhill from there. A few folks having it good even when earned doesn't cut it, unless it is based on a fair system, or at least it is felt to be fair by a majority.

Telling folks who don't like it to move on, usually makes them want to fight on.

[maan]

People ruled by hate or xtreme views usually can't think straight & rarely are popular or a positive influence in mainstream events.

But, many also see the Teamsters as xtreme..

Can't say I know much about them, or what the Union scene was/is generally in the trucking biz..

but the Teamsters are certainly making alot of noise out there.

[Lonleyboy 515]

I don,t think u have to worry about a union in Challenger. There are too many older drivers here that worked for union shops & when they closed there doors the union didn't help any of us.If people don't like it here just quit.Challenger has kept everyone running during these hard times & u can get as many miles as u want. Remember Challenger didn't come after u to work here u came to them,u knew the terms from the start & u agreed to them.

[maan]

I doubt the take it or leave it approach is gonna do any good but bottom line is gonna be the vote.

[liner]

A few folks having it good even when earned doesn't cut it, unless it is based on a fair system, or at least it is felt to be fair by a majority.




And just why is that??You put in your time at a company and you earn your "perks".Nothing unfair about that..or should the guy thats been here 6 months get the same "perks" as guys with 20 years seniority.Even the teamsters won't allow that!

I guess what really bugs me about this the most is the fact a few guys in Quebec are unhappy with there jobs so they feel they can spew all this BS and misinformation about the company,which is there right...but at least get the facts straight.

Nothing bugs me more than a driver that is always whining about there job.If its so bad,move on.Like Lonleyboy said,they new the terms when they hired on so either live with them or quit.

The teamsters are only in this to fatten there wallets to the tune of aprx. a million bucks a year in union dues from the over 1500 drivers,so of course they will promise to change all these things but in reality they will just take your money and won't do squat!Kinda like a politician making all these promises just before an election to try and get votes from all the suckers!

[maan]

Oooh maaan.. didn't know Quebec is in on it ..those dudes are big time lefties & gonna be trouble for sure..

They also stick together big time..

[Pipeman]

I don,t think u have to worry about a union in Challenger. There are too many older drivers here that worked for union shops & when they closed there doors the union didn't help any of us.If people don't like it here just quit.Challenger has kept everyone running during these hard times & u can get as many miles as u want. Remember Challenger didn't come after u to work here u came to them,u knew the terms from the start & u agreed to them.You're suggesting that Challenger doesn't advertise for drivers? Advertising means they are coming to you and Challenger advertises in every damn truck and trade magazines and papers you can find.

[maan]

Are these sign-up papers/terms private of can anyone have a look see?

[liner]

You're suggesting that Challenger doesn't advertise for drivers? Advertising means they are coming to you and Challenger advertises in every damn truck and trade magazines and papers you can find.


True..but nobody forces you to reply!! That is a personal choice!

[liner]

Are these sign-up papers/terms private of can anyone have a look see?


Just check out the teamsters canada website and read the leaflet.All the "promises" are in there.

[maan]

I meant the ones a driver signs with the Co when starting out?

[Lonleyboy 515]

There are a lot of jealous people out there that would like nothing better than to see Challenger go down,but that's not going to happen.I know a lot of guys that have quit here & there kicking there asses for doing it. The grass is not always greener on the other side.You can not please everyone & some you can never please.All i'm saying is union is not the way to go here.

[Mule Bleue]

And just why is that??You put in your time at a company and you earn your "perks".Nothing unfair about that..or should the guy thats been here 6 months get the same "perks" as guys with 20 years seniority.Even the teamsters won't allow that!

I guess what really bugs me about this the most is the fact a few guys in Quebec are unhappy with there jobs so they feel they can spew all this BS and misinformation about the company,which is there right...but at least get the facts straight.

Nothing bugs me more than a driver that is always whining about there job.If its so bad,move on.Like Lonleyboy said,they new the terms when they hired on so either live with them or quit.

The teamsters are only in this to fatten there wallets to the tune of aprx. a million bucks a year in union dues from the over 1500 drivers,so of course they will promise to change all these things but in reality they will just take your money and won't do squat!Kinda like a politician making all these promises just before an election to try and get votes from all the suckers!

Dear Liner,
Well my friend I think that once in a while you should go to the others terminal an may be talk an listen to what the peoples are talking about an also what they are living. The fact that after 23 years you have some privilige it's Ok, so as Teamsters will be agree also, that's what we call senority an it must be respect. Actually (sorry for my grammatical) senority is not recpected at Dorval terminal an I don't think that's fair. Yes i get frustrated when they sent me to Pa , Me or Nyc an just like you the driver who is here for 6 month go to Golden,Co or Jax,Fl. See what i mean. An when you go see the management in office to discuss about it , the awnser is "the system work like that nothing we can do" well that a hell of an awnser rite!

Also it's a little bit more then just a few drivers from Québec that are unhappy, also this union thing start ,belive it or not ,everything as begin in your yard in Cambridge, yeah. Ok driver in Quebec make a lot of noise, but yeah in your yard!!!

I have one question for you: what are you doing when Teamsters will have the accreditation from Canada labor to represent the Driver an O/O?

[maan]

Can't say I've heard of a way out of paying dues in a Union shop though I'm pretty sure some have fought the issue, or desiring to give the money for another cause instead.

You don't have to sign a membership card though, at least at some places but then you probably would forfeit something like a death benefit, voting rights on issues, perhaps even attending a general membership meeting etc..

Dunno how it works everywhere but you are still represented if you do not sign up.

[ratfink]

There are a lot of jealous people out there that would like nothing better than to see Challenger go down,but that's not going to happen.I know a lot of guys that have quit here & there kicking there asses for doing it. The grass is not always greener on the other side.You can not please everyone & some you can never please.All i'm saying is union is not the way to go here.


Couples of things in there that bothers me.
First, Who said it was "jealous people who wanted to bring cmf down"?

Nobody wants to "bring down" cmf, cmf is a good company to work for but since the past couples of years, a lot of things changed and seems that they want to be like all the others.
All I read was that this thing started not on not wanting more money, theyre asking for respect.
Some had been working for 15, 18 years and they are now told , so what? get in line and wait like any other for your turn. Ho and by the way, we cancelled your dedicated run, the loads are now beeing integrated in the marvelous new system.
Now if youve been working at a place for that many years, it's pretty frustrating to see the co, treat you like that.
They've been thru the ups and down and stuck with them soooo they deserve better.

Altho we cant publish the testimonies here... I read them anyway and again, no money was asked.
And another thing, most of the companies wont want a third party between them and the drivers, why?
I strongly suspect that it's because they wont be able to control the way they pay theyre drivers.
they wont be able anymore to decide one morning, hey the rates just went down, lets stop paying border crossing so we can compete for example.


And about guys that left and saw that the grass isn't greener at other places, yeah youre right, in a nutshell, all the trucking companies are pretty much the same.

So what is there to do?
like some sugessted if youre not happy just leave, well this is what pretty much everybody has been doing, and what happened?
trucking companies were screaming out loud that drivers were unreliable because they kept jumping ship all the time.
At first, you could always say that there was a couples of bad apples around.
But this is been going on for years now, so maybe it's not all the driver's fault. maybe the trucking companies should start looking at what they do.

And as far as union for a solution?
Ok I'll agree with you but what other recourse do they have?

Sit and talk?? yeah right...

[Pipeman]

Organizing Campaign at Challenger Motor Freight: response to the letter entitled Your right to know – your right to choose

12-10-2009
EST On December 1st, your employer sent you a letter entitled Your right to know – your right to choose. We read this letter very carefully and noticed that your employer omitted a number of very important details that will help you make your decision about whether or not to join the Teamsters Union.

We ask that you please re-read the letter, this time taking the following information into account:

•UNION DUES ARE DEDUCTIBLE FROM TAXABLE INCOME. Therefore, in concrete terms, you will get back a good part of what you have paid to the union when you file your income tax return at the end of the year.

•DO YOU HAVE A RETIREMENT PLAN? Unlike the majority of workers at unionized trucking companies, workers at your company do not have a retirement plan. Is this normal? We believe it is not.

•A UNION IS NOT A PRISON. The Teamsters Union does not force workers to sign a union card or remain unionized if it no longer suits them.

•IS YOUR EMPLOYER REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT YOUR WELL-BEING? The majority of unionized workers in your industry have a retirement plan. They are paid during truck inspections and switches. Their seniority is recognized and they are not subjected to arbitrary employer decisions. Above all, they benefit from strength in numbers when the time comes to bargain a fair employment contract.

•YOUR EMPLOYER MAKES PROFITS, PART OF WHICH IS YOUR DUE. Is it normal that your pay hasn't increased over the past years? While your purchasing power decreases, your employer is raking in profits!
An industry in crisis?

Some people say that the trucking industry is suffering the direct effects of the economic crisis and that this is the reason why your working conditions do not improve. Has this crisis been going on for five years?

No, it started in 2008.

So, how do we explain this? When the industry is doing well, you get nothing; when the industry is doing poorly, you don't get anything either. Are you being made fun of?

United we stand


The Teamsters Union inspires fear in employers from your industry. Why? Because we improve the lot of thousands of truckers every day, because we believe that bosses should respect workers, and because a company's success is not built in an office, but rather on the road.

Your employer must have forgotten this, because dozens of you have contacted us and it is one of your complaints.

Above all, do not forget that UNITED WE STAND and that you alone are putting yourself at the mercy of unfair decisions.

[Pipeman]

The Teamsters are launching their campaign to organize Challenger's workers

11-27-2009
EST Toronto, November 27, 2009 – Today, the Teamsters Union launches its campaign to organize Challenger group workers, which includes Challenger Motor Freight, Elgin Motor Freight, and Lodwick Transport.

After receiving numerous phone calls from Challenger workers, the Teamsters Union decided to set up a team that will enter into contact with them.

"The truckers have had enough of their employer's arbitrary decisions and contacted us since we are the leading union in the road transport industry in Canada," explained Robert Bouvier, president of Teamsters Canada. "Some of these individuals allegedly suffer undue pressure from their bosses; we consider this to be unacceptable behavior that will be corrected in the very near future."

It also seems that the workers of the three trucking companies have not received a pay increase since 2003 and also have no retirement plan.

"The strength of our union enables us to bargain working conditions that are the envy of workers in all industries," added the Teamsters Canada’s president. "More than 20,000 workers have understood this and have joined us over the past few years. There are surely reasons for this."

Several elements of the non-monetary and work organization clauses are said to be at the heart of the dispute between Challenger, Elgin, and Lodwick and their workers, in particular forced dispatch, seniority, and switches.

"These workers are the basis for the success of these companies and they deserve respect," advised Robert Bouvier. "The success of a trucking company is not built in the offices of top management, but rather on board its trucks."

The campaign, which begins this morning, affects nearly 1,500 workers in all areas of Canada.

The Teamsters union represents tens of thousands of truckers in North America and has hundreds of local unions in the United States and Canada.

Teamsters Canada has launched a bilingual informational website for workers at Challenger, Elgin, and Lodwick. The site can be accessed at www.teamsters-challenger.ca .

The Teamsters Union represents 125,000 members in Canada in all trades. The International Brotherhood of Teamsters, with which Teamsters Canada is affiliated, has 1.4 million members in North America.

[ratfink]

I guess what really bugs me about this the most is the fact a few guys in Quebec are unhappy with there jobs so they feel they can spew all this BS and misinformation about the company,which is there right...but at least get the facts straight.


Ok I missed that post from you mr liner.

Well, talk about getting youre facts straight,
You say it's about a few guys from Québec that are unhappy???
How did you get to that conclusion???
First have you ever even talked to someone from Québec?
If so, wich I boubt, when is the last time you had a conversation with one of them?
How do you know what's going on there if you dont even go there or look at them?

I have been at cmf for a while and guess what?
I've been hearing about union for a long while, not from Québec but from Cambridge.
Last time they talked about union in Dorval, couples of years ago, dan's brother came and warned them they would close the place in Dorval if they ever hear about it again. That they would transform the terminal into a drop yard like Mississauga.
They got the message and my guess is that they wont try anything like that again.
Québec guys knows well that with only about 200 drivers against maybe 700 or 800 in Cambridge and another who know's how many in Vancouver, they wont have any majority to play with anyway. sooo.

So mr liner before spewing misinformation and BS about what the guys in Québec, how about having at least your facts straight!

[maan]

Don't mess with the french.. they are tighter than any anglos I knows..

[maan]

Mr ratfink, on peux parler francais ici et les anglo von alle foo :bighug[1]:

[ralph]

Mr ratfink, on peux parler francais ici et les anglo von alle fou :bighug[1]:

vous visser

[ratfink]

Mr ratfink, on peux parler francais ici et les anglo von alle fou :bighug[1]:

hey pas de problèmes Maan, but I'll stick to english, after all it would be improper and impolite to speak or write french in a english based forum.

But I dont like BS and missinformation either so I'm always carefull and always check what I write before I press the "submit reply" button.
I have learn a long time ago that when you "spew" BS there's always be someone to correct you and it's the best way to lose youre credibility and integrity.
And that's ok as long as they know what they are talking about.

[maan]

oh oh ..bookworm's gonna nail me on the word thing.. for rules..

[maan]

But I dont like BS and missinformation either so I'm always carefull and always check what I write before I press the "submit reply" button.
I have learn a long time ago that when you "spew" BS there's always be someone to correct you and it's the best way to lose youre credibility and integrity.
And that's ok as long as they know what they are talking about.
Gonna be so much BS going around that heads'll be spinning! Then some things that may be completely true to someone can come out like pure BS to someone else..

From what I read here, the owner will not help matters.. When's the vote?

[liner]

Dear Liner,
Well my friend I think that once in a while you should go to the others terminal an may be talk an listen to what the peoples are talking about an also what they are living. The fact that after 23 years you have some privilige it's Ok, so as Teamsters will be agree also, that's what we call senority an it must be respect. Actually (sorry for my grammatical) senority is not recpected at Dorval terminal an I don't think that's fair. Yes i get frustrated when they sent me to Pa , Me or Nyc an just like you the driver who is here for 6 month go to Golden,Co or Jax,Fl. See what i mean. An when you go see the management in office to discuss about it , the awnser is "the system work like that nothing we can do" well that a hell of an awnser rite!

Also it's a little bit more then just a few drivers from Québec that are unhappy, also this union thing start ,belive it or not ,everything as begin in your yard in Cambridge, yeah. Ok driver in Quebec make a lot of noise, but yeah in your yard!!!

I have one question for you: what are you doing when Teamsters will have the accreditation from Canada labor to represent the Driver an O/O?

Well my friend,seniority has never been a factor unless you were bidding on a dedicated run.It has always been first in first out,no matter your seniority and everyone knows that from the start.These past years when things have been slow,I to got frustrated watching new recruits going to Texas and I'm offered a Flint Michigan,but hey guess what,I either do it or I go home and wait for something better which could be a very long wait!Thats the way it's always been and going to management won't help.Remember you agreed to those terms when you hired on at CMF,just as I did!!

And yes I agree that its more than a few drivers from Quebec that are unhappy,but I have it from a very reliable source that Quebec drivers were the ones that got the Teamsters involved. Also I won't waste my time sitting around the yard(any yard)listening to a bunch of truck drivers complaining about there jobs!

I have a few questions for you also...Why do you work at CMF if it's a union job you want??Is it because you couldn't find one because most of them are gone,and the teamster companies
that are left have hundreds on layoff!!If the teamsters are so great why is there membership in a steady decline!

Also if by some fluke the union did manage to get in,do you really think they would have any chance of getting a first contract signed with the present owner? If and when that ever happens I'll be long gone,because as I've said before the teamsters will never get another dime out of me!

[liner]

Ok
First have you ever even talked to someone from Québec?

Well, I've tried for years but never had much success.




I have been at cmf for a while and guess what?
I've been hearing about union for a long while, not from Québec but from Cambridge.
Last time they talked about union in Dorval, couples of years ago, dan's brother came and warned them they would close the place in Dorval if they ever hear about it again. That they would transform the terminal into a drop yard like Mississauga.




Like they say,if you haven't heard a good rumor lately,start one! You will never convince me that the teamsters are the way to go,and I won't change your mind either.Hey its a free country so do what you gotta do.

[Lonleyboy 515]

I have been to the other terminals & as liner i don't hang around & listen to the bs.I have loads i didn't like but you either take it or go to the bottom of the list again, usually one bad load & your next load is a good one.Then again it depends on how long you want to be out,if you want to be out 7 days well then you will get low miles & little revenue & those are the people that miss the border cross money.

[ratfink]

Well my friend,seniority has never been a factor unless you were bidding on a dedicated run.It has always been first in first out,no matter your seniority and everyone knows that from the start.

Ok then why in the first years I was there I couldn't get any loads in TX GA, ect, I was just getting east coast garbage. I Here's was told by senior managment in cambridge, many times.

"hey those guys (high on seniority list) deserve to get those loads, stick around and your turn will come. I did and now I'm told that they cant do that anymore.
the reason???

"Well pretty simple, if we dont give the newbies what they want (recruiters promisses to grab them) they leave, on the other hand you guys, you have proved to us that it takes longer before you get fed up and leave"

These past years when things have been slow,I to got frustrated watching new recruits going to Texas and I'm offered a Flint Michigan,but hey guess what,I either do it or I go home and wait for something better which could be a very long wait!Thats the way it's always been and going to management won't help.

No managment wont help we noticed. Now you tell me that's fair??? And we all wonder why trucking is such in a bad shape, again with garbage like that, no wonder are asking for respect.

Remember you agreed to those terms when you hired on at CMF,just as I did!!

No sir, remember recruiter's promisses? things did change depending who's dispatching.


And yes I agree that its more than a few drivers from Quebec that are unhappy,

then if you agree that it's more than a few drivers from Québec why do you spew that garbage???

I have it from a very reliable source that Quebec drivers were the ones that got the Teamsters involved.


Ha yeah I forgot, your reliable source... your higher ops in cambridge office? come on you dont know more than I do.
Talking like that will only start a war between Cambridge and Québec guys, Hummm maybe thats what your reliable source asked you to do.... nahhh I'm not going to play that game with you.


Also I won't waste my time sitting around the yard(any yard)listening to a bunch of truck drivers complaining about there jobs!

Well my friend maybe you should stop and listen to what those truck drivers have to say, maybe just maybe you would have a better idea on whats really going on instead of speculating like you do my friend.



ok I hope this is not going to be a propaganda war.

[ratfink]

I have been to the other terminals & as liner i don't hang around & listen to the bs.I have loads i didn't like but you either take it or go to the bottom of the list again, usually one bad load & your next load is a good one.Then again it depends on how long you want to be out,if you want to be out 7 days well then you will get low miles & little revenue & those are the people that miss the border cross money.


Oh yes, I forgot, being a truck drivers for those companies is a sentence.

you sign up and leave any family social life, they dont hire you they buy you.

Ah forgot again, you agreed to it all when they first hired you, in a 3 days head cramming session called "orientation" and it"s all writen in a 3in thick rule book.

[bikerboy]

this is getting interesting,

i hope the union does get into CMF, hopefully that will be the start of major improvement to OTR trucking, maybe drivers will finally be paid what they are worth and appreciated for all the things they give up at home.

Either things will go really well and everyone will be making good money( CMF and the driver)

or else CMF will have to close down and reopen under a new non union company.

will be interesting to see what happens in next few years if union does get in.

[bikerboy]

Oh yes, I forgot, being a truck drivers for those companies is a sentence.

you sign up and leave any family social life, they dont hire you they buy you.

Ah forgot again, you agreed to it all when they first hired you, in a 3 days head cramming session called "orientation" and it"s all writen in a 3in thick rule book.

i agree, 7 days out is too many, and that was the main reason i would not work for CMF

[ralph]

From Rat-Fink's previous post "remember recruiter's promisses?"

You're JOKING right Rat-Fink! You would actually BELIEVE a recruiter? You would actually ADMIT this to the world? Pull you head out of your butt, you have cut the blood and oxygen circulation off and are suffering from brain damage...it appears it may be permanent!

[ralph]

i agree, 7 days out is too many, and that was the main reason i would not work for CMF

Everything about long haul SUCKS according to you BB...go play in your sandbox and let the MEN have an intelligent discussion.

[bikerboy]

Everything about long haul SUCKS according to you BB...go play in your sandbox and let the MEN have an intelligent discussion.

are you saying guys who work local, aren't men??? local work is just as tough and stressful as long haul some days.

and if long haul is so good, why does it not pay hourly, with OT?? you know why, because the hourly wage would be below minimum wage! and companies would cry they are paying too much OT

[liner]

i agree, 7 days out is too many, and that was the main reason i would not work for CMF


Well then if a guy wants to be home more why would you even apply at a company that you know runs coast to coast!!What we have out here now is a bunch of pussies that want to work Monday to Friday and be home every statutory holiday. If thats what you want fine,but don't apply for an OTR job and then whine when you don't get home every weekend, because thats not the way it works in the real world.

[bikerboy]

i did work at two OTR companies that did get me home every weekend i wanted to be home! and home every stat holiday, so don't tell me its not possible, if CMF wanted too, they could get all drivers who wanted to be home every wknd and holiday.

if a small company can do it, it should be a breeze for a big company, with the amount of freight they have access too!

[ratfink]

this is getting interesting,

i hope the union does get into CMF, hopefully that will be the start of major improvement to OTR trucking, maybe drivers will finally be paid what they are worth and appreciated for all the things they give up at home.

Either things will go really well and everyone will be making good money( CMF and the driver)

or else CMF will have to close down and reopen under a new non union company.

will be interesting to see what happens in next few years if union does get in.

This is it, that's what's its all about.

For me, it's not about union, not about wanting to hurt cmf, not about ranting but the way I see it, you have a bunch of guys who are at least trying to do something about it instead of complaining in the yard.
might not be the best solution, i'll give you that but again, what else is there???

I look at all of this and I hope the guys pull it off, no matter what the outcome there a message out there.
The drivers are fed up of beeing taken for farm animals.
They just cant keep wasting drivers social, family life just because they were warned when they were hired.
oh and by the way, most of the time, they do learn about the rules when they end up in Dr Phil's chair.

How many drivers were wasted by OTR companies thru the years?
they keep claiming that theres a drivers shortage.
BS, I read a report not long ago that claimed that over 350000 drivers had theyre CDL in theyre pockets and were doing something else for a living after they quit OTR driving, why did they leave???
They were fed up. plain and simple and the companies wont change theyre policies. They wont change because
They keep wasting drivers thinking that theres more coming thru the pipeline.

youre right, this is going to be interesting

[ralph]

are you saying guys who work local, aren't men??? local work is just as tough and stressful as long haul some days.


I'll pay for your ESL class BB so you can comprehend my post.

I would have hated running the highway if I worked for 30cpm @ a particular carrier like you did! Deny it all you like, many of us know the carrier and their pay schedule.

[ratfink]

From Rat-Fink's previous post "remember recruiter's promisses?"

You're JOKING right Rat-Fink! You would actually BELIEVE a recruiter? You would actually ADMIT this to the world? Pull you head out of your butt, you have cut the blood and oxygen circulation off and are suffering from brain damage...it appears it may be permanent!


Yeah youre right ralphie boy, It is probably permanent, I'm still a OTR driver.

Oh and "visse toi" too buddy!

[liner]

Oh yes, I forgot, being a truck drivers for those companies is a sentence.

you sign up and leave any family social life, they dont hire you they buy you.

Ah forgot again, you agreed to it all when they first hired you, in a 3 days head cramming session called "orientation" and it"s all writen in a 3in thick rule book.

Sounds to me like your just not made of the right stuff to be an OTR driver.You need to find yourself a nice cushy union job where you can be home every night because CMF just isn't being fair to you! Maybe you should have taken the time to read the "3in thick rule book".


I don't know how long you have worked at CMF,or how long you have been in this profession,but believing any recruiter...now thats just sad.

[ratfink]

OK I'm trying to have an inteligent conversation here but I dont like the way it's turning.

I dont mind my opinions being argumented but I wont get into the insult game.
come on guys, you can argue without "the get your head out of your rear end" and the "permanent brain damage" type of conversation, right?

[maan]

I didn't even know what visse toi was but I think I get it now! Figures it comes from ralphie boy ..lol

Forget about him ratfink, he's already got a hate-on theme going on with others so he can feel better about himself.

[liner]

i did work at two OTR companies that did get me home every weekend i wanted to be home! and home every stat holiday, so don't tell me its not possible, if CMF wanted too, they could get all drivers who wanted to be home every wknd and holiday.

if a small company can do it, it should be a breeze for a big company, with the amount of freight they have access too!


Now see that is where you are wrong.Its alot easier getting a dozen drivers home on the weekend than it is 1500.The more freight...the more customers that want Monday morning delivery so its pretty hard to keep a customer happy when nobody wants to work weekends.

I hear it all the time.."all I get offered is short trips"...and in the next sentence "they better get me home by Friday".Well here is a news flash for you,if you want to run Texas,Florida etc...your gonna work weekends.Can't have it both ways.

[ratfink]

Sounds to me like your just not made of the right stuff to be an OTR driver.You need to find yourself a nice cushy union job where you can be home every night because CMF just isn't being fair to you! Maybe you should have taken the time to read the "3in thick rule book".


I don't know how long you have worked at CMF,or how long you have been in this profession,but believing any recruiter...now thats just sad.

Is this the best argument you can come up with?????

I've been at cmf long enough to remember when they "ordered" brokers to cut theyre frame to 244in. everybody did.
Gee how did you slip between the cracks on that one?
I've been there long enough to remember dan's would once in a while bring us trailers to Windsor at the husky for a turn around to Chicago, remember multi drops and pick-ups???
By the way HE told me about older guys who deserved to get better loads and HE told me to stick around.
Oh geee is he the recruiter I'm talkin about????

I also been in that business for 35 years and I saw the change those companies did to trucking.

So get some better arguments than that my friend.

and I never been union driver either, I dont give a rats rear end about that.
Just in case...

[ralph]

OK I'm trying to have an inteligent conversation here but I dont like the way it's turning.

I dont mind my opinions being argumented but I wont get into the insult game.
come on guys, you can argue without "the get your head out of your rear end" and the "permanent brain damage" type of conversation, right?

You are RIGHT, I'll TRY to play nicer but PLEASE don't post something as dumb as believing a recruiter as it diminishes our ability to think of you intelligently.

[ratfink]

You are RIGHT, I'll TRY to play nicer but PLEASE don't post something as dumb as believing a recruiter as it diminishes our ability to think of you intelligently.

ok I'll play nice too.

You can "UNvisse toi" then
LOL

[Pipeman]

I didn't even know what visse toi was but I think I get it now! Figures it comes from ralphie boy ..lol

Forget about him ratfink, he's already got a hate-on theme going on with others so he can feel better about himself.

A "visse" is a Screw.

[Pipeman]

ok I'll play nice too.

You can "UNvisse toi" then
LOLThat would take a left hand drive "tournavisse"

[maan]

tournevisse ..i think

[Pipeman]

tournevisse ..i think

Oui, c'est tournevisse.

[liner]

Is this the best argument you can come up with?????

I've been at cmf long enough to remember when they "ordered" brokers to cut theyre frame to 244in. everybody did.
Gee how did you slip between the cracks on that one?
I've been there long enough to remember dan's would once in a while bring us trailers to Windsor at the husky for a turn around to Chicago, remember multi drops and pick-ups???
By the way HE told me about older guys who deserved to get better loads and HE told me to stick around.
Oh geee is he the recruiter I'm talkin about????

I also been in that business for 35 years and I saw the change those companies did to trucking.

So get some better arguments than that my friend.

and I never been union driver either, I dont give a rats rear end about that.
Just in case...

I guess you've been At CMF since at least 1995-1996 because if I remember correctly that is when guys chopped the frames.
Very simple..I just said no.I saw no reason to chop a perfectly good frame when at that time all I did was pull 48' trailers.

Yes I remember the Windsor switches and the LTL loads. Oh and if Dan was the recruiter you should have known not to believe him ...of all people!LOL.


A better argument??? Why? See I have no argument with the way things are done,unlike you.Do I agree with the way everything is done...NO but I also have the choice to stay or leave if I don't like things, but I see no reason to bring in a third party like the teamsters to stir things up. The only ones that will benefit from joining the teamsters will be the teamsters themselves.

Just what will the teamsters do to benefit O/O's.Ask a Highland driver what they did for them! If you've never been a union driver..trust me you aren't missing anything!

[ratfink]

Now see that is where you are wrong.Its alot easier getting a dozen drivers home on the weekend than it is 1500.The more freight...the more customers that want Monday morning delivery so its pretty hard to keep a customer happy when nobody wants to work weekends.

I hear it all the time.."all I get offered is short trips"...and in the next sentence "they better get me home by Friday".Well here is a news flash for you,if you want to run Texas,Florida etc...your gonna work weekends.Can't have it both ways.


Tell me something liner,
How much would it cost to a company to let's say,
Mr liner who has 20some years with the company to ask monday morning where he wants to go?
Now with 1500 drivers there has to be a whole bunch of loads right?

mr liner grabs a load for Fl and starts his week a happy camper.
The Fl load has to leave anyway why not let your high senority driver choose wich one they want?
Then Mr dispatch goes down the list.
Of course, if Mr liner want tocome back friday, he wont choose a Ca.

bet that would be to easy and respectfull for drivers huh?

I know I know, it was writen otherwise when they hired you.....

[ratfink]

vous visser

ha ha ha, you guys are close, I'll translate for you.

Visse means "screw" and vous means "you"

[ralph]

If everyone gets their "choice" what do you do with the loads that no one wants? No wants the Brooklyn loads today so what do we do with them? No on wants the Florida loads on a Tuesday because they may get stuck for the weekend. no one wants to go to Winterpeg because it's colder than a whore's heart. What do you do with the loads that no on wants to pull?

As a former CMF O/O (around 91-94) and a former dispatcher it's not as easy as you make it out to be. Customers call, trucks get dispatched. Seniority based dispatch would work on a Friday only after that it's first come first serve.

[ratfink]

A better argument???

Close, I might have been there before that.
I meant come up with better arguments than telling me that I wasnt cut for OTR.

You know what?, you could come up with anything you want against union, I said it earlier, I dont give a rat's rear end about that.
What I do care is the way those big companies are turning trucking into.
They are turning us into mindless drones runned by a satelite system who cant think for himself or herself.

were not people anymore, were more and more turning into warm meat who is there just to take the truck where the system needs it to be and make sure the thing doesn't ditch.

Now if you like what those companies are doing to our trade (driving trucks remember?)
Well good for you, I for one dont like it at all.
Like I said again and again, union might not be the answer, I'll give you that.
What can the driving community can do to restore the pride of driving a truck OTR?????

And as far as not believing the boss? you seem's to believe him, up to now, you're giving us pretty much the same speach he does.

[liner]

Tell me something liner,
How much would it cost to a company to let's say,
Mr liner who has 20some years with the company to ask monday morning where he wants to go?
Now with 1500 drivers there has to be a whole bunch of loads right?

mr liner grabs a load for Fl and starts his week a happy camper.
The Fl load has to leave anyway why not let your high senority driver choose wich one they want?
Then Mr dispatch goes down the list.
Of course, if Mr liner want tocome back friday, he wont choose a Ca.

bet that would be to easy and respectfull for drivers huh?

I know I know, it was writen otherwise when they hired you.....


Yes,thats kinda the way it works now.They know the area I like to run so I usually leave a happy camper on Mondays...but not always because as you say it was written otherwise.

I don't know why you are treated the way you are but my beef is not with you or CMF. I just do not want to see the teamsters get in so I will do anything I can to prevent it from happening.

You have every right to your opinion,I just don't happen to agree with it ,and you don't need to agree with mine either.

[ratfink]

If everyone gets their "choice" what do you do with the loads that no one wants? No wants the Brooklyn loads today so what do we do with them? No on wants the Florida loads on a Tuesday because they may get stuck for the weekend. no one wants to go to Winterpeg because it's colder than a whore's heart. What do you do with the loads that no on wants to pull?

As a former CMF O/O (around 91-94) and a former dispatcher it's not as easy as you make it out to be. Customers call, trucks get dispatched. Seniority based dispatch would work on a Friday only after that it's first come first serve.

In another life, I've been a dispatcher too, older guys in the co. would have a choice on monday morning.
If you ask what everybody wants of course you will get stuck with crappy loads nobody wants.

But if theres a rule in place (and respect it) the younger guys in the senority list knows and believe that theyre turn will come and will be rewarded for sticking around.

they might be stuck to start theyre workweek with crappy loads like NYC or whatever but if they see that the company respects theyre drivers they will stick around and will eventually get theyre turn.
if you break that trust, you get what trucking companies are getting these days.
I would'nt be surprise to see other companies be caught with the union bug.

[liner]

If everyone gets their "choice" what do you do with the loads that no one wants? No wants the Brooklyn loads today so what do we do with them? No on wants the Florida loads on a Tuesday because they may get stuck for the weekend. no one wants to go to Winterpeg because it's colder than a whore's heart. What do you do with the loads that no on wants to pull?

As a former CMF O/O (around 91-94) and a former dispatcher it's not as easy as you make it out to be. Customers call, trucks get dispatched. Seniority based dispatch would work on a Friday only after that it's first come first serve.

I agree..and once worked at a refer company with red trucks that dispatched that way,and still does.You phoned in Saturday morning and got your choice,after that it was first in first out.

[ratfink]

Yes,thats kinda the way it works now.They know the area I like to run so I usually leave a happy camper on Mondays...but not always because as you say it was written otherwise.

I don't know why you are treated the way you are but my beef is not with you or CMF. I just do not want to see the teamsters get in so I will do anything I can to prevent it from happening.

You have every right to your opinion,I just don't happen to agree with it ,and you don't need to agree with mine either.

Well we're getting somewhere my friend.
My beef is not with you either, or cmf for that matter.

To me it's all the OTR that is in trouble

I know thats the case for you, I dont care because like I stated earlier, you stuck around and deserve it. I honestly dont have a problem with that
But ask around, seriously ask around and for the last couples of years, things changed. Theres a lot of higher drivers in the senority list who leaves on wed not exactly happy camppers.
Do they deserve to be treated like this?

All this and theres more than just the senority list, from the stories I heard, some safety managers have taken theyre enforcing a little too seriously.

Add this up and no surprise drivers are pi,ssed off

[ratfink]

I agree..and once worked at a refer company with red trucks that dispatched that way,and still does.You phoned in Saturday morning and got your choice,after that it was first in first out.

Is that where the boss took is model of a trucking company???
3 letters red trucks reefers company?
well he should of taken that rule with him too huh?

[liner]

And as far as not believing the boss? you seem's to believe him, up to now, you're giving us pretty much the same speach he does.

No not really...I grew up with the guy and it was always rather well known he liked to "stretch"the truth.

I've heard he put out a letter about all this union stuff but a lot of us never got one,not that it really matters because I'm sure it was not pro-union so if thats the case then yes,I guess I would sound like him.

[ratfink]

Ok got it.

[liner]

Is that where the boss took is model of a trucking company???
3 letters red trucks reefers company?
well he should of taken that rule with him too huh?


I actually worked with him at that company but I'm afraid he modeled CMF a little differently.

[bikerboy]

I'll pay for your ESL class BB so you can comprehend my post.

I would have hated running the highway if I worked for 30cpm @ a particular carrier like you did! Deny it all you like, many of us know the carrier and their pay schedule.

so what if I worked there, i actually got 33 cents, and it got me some OTR experience, and i went to some pretty awesome places, so it was not too bad actually, just not what i wanted to do forever.

I don't regret working anywhere i have worked, i learn new things at every place i have worked.

[ralph]

Thanks for telling the truth about your pitiful pay BB. You have never had anything good to say about OTR or Challenger and now we all see why. You NEVER worked there and you hate the place. They offered you a job for MORE than a paltry 33cpm (GAWD) and you turned it down because...they wouldn't tell you what kind of truck you would be assigned! Your comments about OTR aren't relevant to the discussion and frankly are inane. Let those that understand OTR participate, you sit there and read "Dick and Jane".
ps: The offer is still open for the ESL class!

[maan]

Attitudes like yours are an excellent example why a worker would take any steps available, to have a say in their working conditions & respond with a collective VISSE TOI.!!!!

& You are dreaming in terms of speaking for "we"!

Let me sum up your post: Shut up, I decide ..along with the typical ESL crap. I talk, you listen. The more your type speaks, the more folks want to fight back.

What is inane to you, can be very relevant to someone else.

[ralph]

Attitudes like yours are an excellent example why a worker would take any steps available, to have a say in their working conditions & respond with a collective VISSE TOI.!!!!

You and everyone have a choice. If I am NOT happy and can't live with it/resolve my issues I pack my SHAT and move on! Simple! Life's too short to be unhappy and miserable. If you like I will translate YOUR comment made "en francais" so that the others see why I replied VISSE VOUS!

& You are dreaming in terms of speaking for "we"!
WII then...apparently it's fun!


Let me sum up your post: Shut up, I decide along with the typical ESL crap. I talk, you listen. The more your type speaks, the more folks want to fight back.

The ESL comment wasn't made towards YOU but, rather to a member who can't comprehend simple english. Once he finishes with "Dick and Jane" he'll be smarter. I don't poke fun @ those who's mother tongue isn't english. My Mother tongue isn't french and while my ability is limited I do try to PARLEZ and am NEVER criticized when I make the mistakes I do!

[elmo]

when all is said and done..... it might be a while though... i strongly beleive that this is going to be a good thing for everyone.... and we all should thank the challenger drivers for at least taking a stand .. and a chance at improving our crappy working conditions .. it might work or it might not.. but if it does . well the other trucking company owners might take a few steps back and start thinking that maybe THEY are the next ones the teamsters will come knocking on their door... and even now they must be taking a close look at what is going on.. and that my friends is really good....
my opinion

[maan]

The ESL comment wasn't made towards YOU but, rather to a member who can't comprehend simple english. Once he finishes with "Dick and Jane" he'll be smarter. I don't poke fun @ those who's mother tongue isn't english. My Mother tongue isn't french and while my ability is limited I do try to PARLEZ and am NEVER criticized when I make the mistakes I do!

Well speaking for myself, I have had no issues with BB speaking his mind. In fact, he often speaks exactly what is going on out there, in a frank manner like no one else does or want to openly talk about.

You can justify your words all you like , they speak for themselves & folks are going to decide for themselves where you are coming from, what you are about or trying to say.

With your response, I would say you completely missed my point & went on to defend your words, with which for me, you can only go downhill from there.

Never seen that stop you before though..

[Mule Bleue]

Ok just to clarify the border crossing pay, after digging thru my pay slip here's the approx date an amount: it begin in april 1997 for $6.00 for each border crossing, then may 2004 it went to $15.00 for each non-fast border crossing an $10.00 for fast border crossing. Then sept 25th,2009 cut to $0.00. So it have been crank up 2 ½ year after 9/11. Hope that help an clarify the thing

[Mule Bleue]

I agree..and once worked at a refer company with red trucks that dispatched that way,and still does.You phoned in Saturday morning and got your choice,after that it was first in first out.

Don't you think my friend that how thing should be? Don't you think that would be one of the best way to show respect for drivers that help you to build you compagny that strong, that stay in during storms, rather then quiting??

Lot of carrier work it that way, certainly not the perfect way but one of the best way, ok the new drivers may not like it , but if they stay one day it will be their turn, don't you think??

Have a great day

[Mule Bleue]

No not really...I grew up with the guy and it was always rather well known he liked to "stretch"the truth.

I've heard he put out a letter about all this union stuff but a lot of us never got one,not that it really matters because I'm sure it was not pro-union so if thats the case then yes,I guess I would sound like him.

Hey thanks i'll remember that one next time i'll see him

[bikerboy]

Thanks for telling the truth about your pitiful pay BB. You have never had anything good to say about OTR or Challenger and now we all see why. You NEVER worked there and you hate the place. They offered you a job for MORE than a paltry 33cpm (GAWD) and you turned it down because...they wouldn't tell you what kind of truck you would be assigned! Your comments about OTR aren't relevant to the discussion and frankly are inane. Let those that understand OTR participate, you sit there and read "Dick and Jane".
ps: The offer is still open for the ESL class!


hey i was paid speedometer mileage for every mile that truck rolled at 33 cents, so that helped the pay! our pay was always off our odometer, so anytime we missed turns or exits, and driving around to a truckstop to get fuel, and driving around a customers yard, all that was paid! most carriers don't do that!

And the reason i did not want to work at challenger, was this, they would not tell me how often i could be home wknds. if they would have said i could be home 2 weekends a month, i would have said yes i will work there.

i have no idea what the dick and jane comments and ESL are about, and sounds alot like a personal attack, which is against posting rules here! do you want me to edit your posts for you??


and heres on good thing about OTR, i made the most i ever made in one week, working OTR, so its does pay good some weeks, but overall its not worth it to me, for everything you put in and miss out at home.

[liner]

Ok just to clarify the border crossing pay, after digging thru my pay slip here's the approx date an amount: it begin in april 1997 for $6.00 for each border crossing, then may 2004 it went to $15.00 for each non-fast border crossing an $10.00 for fast border crossing. Then sept 25th,2009 cut to $0.00. So it have been crank up 2 ½ year after 9/11. Hope that help an clarify the thing


Ok ..that was for company drivers and as an O/O we received nothing until after 9/11 and then we got the 10 bucks and nothing for fast loads so it was no great loss to us when they took it away this fall.

[liner]

Hey thanks i'll remember that one next time i'll see him


Come on ....your trying to tell me you have been around CMF this long and didn't know that about the boss!!!

[liner]

Don't you think my friend that how thing should be? Don't you think that would be one of the best way to show respect for drivers that help you to build you compagny that strong, that stay in during storms, rather then quiting??

Lot of carrier work it that way, certainly not the perfect way but one of the best way, ok the new drivers may not like it , but if they stay one day it will be their turn, don't you think??

Have a great day


In a perfect world yes...But I see no way of making it work at a company the size of CMF.It may work great at a smaller company but I would hate to be the dispatcher trying to dispatch drivers that way at CMF.It just creates a whole other set of problems.

[Mule Bleue]

Come on ....your trying to tell me you have been around CMF this long and didn't know that about the boss!!!

Well i've talk to him only 3 time in 15 years, but i've heard all kinds of legends about him; you know like me what legends worth! When he was coming at Dorval i'm not always there! :8_4_53[1]:

[bikerboy]

they could let O/O's pick their own loads online, like i have read landstar does, i read that they have no dispatch really, and all drivers who are all O/O pick their own loads online off landstars website. if you don't pick a load, you don't have to work.

challenger could do the same and let drivers with 5 years or more experience pick their own loads online for the coming week.
if they had the website set up properly some drivers could find all their own loads themself, and wouldn't even need to talk to a dispatcher.

[Mule Bleue]

they could let O/O's pick their own loads online, like i have read landstar does, i read that they have no dispatch really, and all drivers who are all O/O pick their own loads online off landstars website. if you don't pick a load, you don't have to work.

challenger could do the same and let drivers with 5 years or more experience pick their own loads online for the coming week.
if they had the website set up properly some drivers could find all their own loads themself, and wouldn't even need to talk to a dispatcher.

Good Suggestion

:bravo::bravo:

[liner]

they could let O/O's pick their own loads online, like i have read landstar does, i read that they have no dispatch really, and all drivers who are all O/O pick their own loads online off landstars website. if you don't pick a load, you don't have to work.

challenger could do the same and let drivers with 5 years or more experience pick their own loads online for the coming week.
if they had the website set up properly some drivers could find all their own loads themself, and wouldn't even need to talk to a dispatcher.


Ok...and then who hauls all the loads that nobody wants??Right back to square one....forced dispatch.Picking loads for the coming week would not work.Too many things change from hour to hour,day to day.Loads get canceled,delays,weather,breakdowns etc,etc.In a perfect world it may work,but not here.I'm not crazy about the system in place now but it is what it is,and until someone can come up with a better 'Workable" system,we live with what we have.

The reason it works at Landstar is because of all the agents they have(or should I say load pimps) and if nobody takes the loads they just end up on the truck stop load board .Some company that pays there drivers 33cpm will take them.LOL (I couldn't resit that one) You won't see CMF giving away loads that drivers don't pick when they have a yard full of trucks.

[ratfink]

Older guys in the co. would have a choice on monday morning.
If you ask what everybody wants of course you will get stuck with crappy loads nobody wants.

But if theres a rule in place (and respect it) the younger guys in the senority list knows and believe that theyre turn will come and will be rewarded for sticking around.

they might be stuck to start theyre workweek with crappy loads like NYC or whatever but if they see that the company respects theyre drivers they will stick around and will eventually get theyre turn.
if you break that trust, you get what trucking companies are getting these days.


Call it force dispatch or whatever but at least start a cycle every monday.

older guys get to choose first.
you know? it's the only way a company can reward theyre drivers who are loyal to them .

Why is it so difficult?
Again it's a matter of respect, simple as that!

[Mercenary]

Respect would go a long ways to curing some of the ills in the industry.

[Pipeman]

they could let O/O's pick their own loads online, like i have read landstar does, i read that they have no dispatch really, and all drivers who are all O/O pick their own loads online off landstars website. if you don't pick a load, you don't have to work.

challenger could do the same and let drivers with 5 years or more experience pick their own loads online for the coming week.
if they had the website set up properly some drivers could find all their own loads themself, and wouldn't even need to talk to a dispatcher.

After reading this I would have to say that your "dream" would be nothing but a friggin' nightmare.

Landstar owner ops all have their "agents" to help them dispatch etc.

And if the operators can find their own loads, why in hell would they pay Landstar a percentage????

[ratfink]

After reading this I would have to say that your "dream" would be nothing but a friggin' nightmare.

Landstar owner ops all have their "agents" to help them dispatch etc.

And if the operators can find their own loads, why in hell would they pay Landstar a percentage????

I agree this wouldnt work.

[ralph]

they could let O/O's pick their own loads online, like i have read landstar does, i read that they have no dispatch really, and all drivers who are all O/O pick their own loads online off landstars website. if you don't pick a load, you don't have to work.

challenger could do the same and let drivers with 5 years or more experience pick their own loads online for the coming week.
if they had the website set up properly some drivers could find all their own loads themself, and wouldn't even need to talk to a dispatcher.

Just like the "old days" Liner...paid hub miles...some guys ran Dallas via Big cabin, some via OKC.

I would book the load to Miami and the next load I booked would be in Fort McMoney (3,300 miles empty) coming home! NO DISPATCHER to deal with NO ONE TO SAY NO!! And all miles paid as per contract!

Good thinkin' BB!

[Pipeman]

Just like the "old days" Liner...paid hub miles...some guys ran Dallas via Big cabin, some via OKC.

I would book the load to Miami and the next load I booked would be in Fort McMoney (3,300 miles empty) coming home! NO DISPATCHER to deal with NO ONE TO SAY NO!! And all miles paid as per contract!

Good thinkin' BB!Yeah, the "old days". Just can't get the damn clock to turn back.

[ralph]

And if the operators can find their own loads, why in hell would they pay Landstar a percentage????

Landstar provides authority, insurance, credit checks, fuel cards, cash advances etc etc.

Yes a Landstar O/O can find his own load BUT it has to pass credit first and depending upon the agent that books the load the O/O may get an additional % kick back for finding the freight.

[liner]

Just like the "old days" Liner...paid hub miles...some guys ran Dallas via Big cabin, some via OKC.



Good thinkin' BB!


Yup...those were the days.... exactly why drivers are no longer paid hub miles!!

[liner]

Landstar provides authority, insurance, credit checks, fuel cards, cash advances etc etc.

Yes a Landstar O/O can find his own load BUT it has to pass credit first and depending upon the agent that books the load the O/O may get an additional % kick back for finding the freight.



I seem to remember a certain fellow from Ayr that kinda had his own system at LS .It seemed to work pretty well for him!!Yellow Pete..old CMF trailer... I don't think LS ever made much money off him. LOL

[bikerboy]

Just like the "old days" Liner...paid hub miles...some guys ran Dallas via Big cabin, some via OKC.

I would book the load to Miami and the next load I booked would be in Fort McMoney (3,300 miles empty) coming home! NO DISPATCHER to deal with NO ONE TO SAY NO!! And all miles paid as per contract!

Good thinkin' BB!

the online load board, could be programmed to not allow company drivers to deadhead more then 100 miles or so for a load without someone at the head office approving it. and company drivers must take a load anytime they get empty unless the have approval from head office not too.

and why not let O/O's and high seniority guys pick online of what loads they want, and what ever is left is dispatched out to lower seniority guys?

it would not be that hard, if a computer program was designed properly.

any drivers who wanted to do this, could log onto the net with a blackberry and view all available loads and pick what they want, it would be the end of dispatch giving loads to their favorite drivers. because everyone knows dispatch saves the really gravy loads for their favorites drivers or O/O's
the drivers would be able to view all available loads, the same as dispatch can, and the driver can take what he wants, saving work for the dispatchers.

if it was planned out properly there would not be any loads left over, everyone must take a load unless they have approval not too, so as long as there was not way more loads then trucks, how would there be any loads left over?

right now all the good loads go to the dispatchers favorite guys, and the sh!t loads go to un favorite guys, so it would not change much, except the dispatch would not be able to save loads for favorites anymore.


It could work, if it was planned out well enough is my point!

[ralph]

the online load board, could be programmed to not allow company drivers to deadhead more then 100 miles or so for a load without someone at the head office approving it. and company drivers must take a load anytime they get empty unless the have approval from head office not too.

and why not let O/O's and high seniority guys pick online of what loads they want, and what ever is left is dispatched out to lower seniority guys?

it would not be that hard, if a computer program was designed properly.

Why only company drivers BB? Are they less competent?

I'm @ the 407&410 empty in Bramladesh/Hogtown! I'm blasting to London to get a load for Seattle
because it's within the 100 mile radius. How many hundred loads did I just drive PAST and get paid for it?

As McDonalds say BB "Im Loving It"

I can't believe a major carrier hasn't picked you up BB to be an operations manager!

If a driver was in ANY town he could conceivably drive PAST a load and be within the 100 mile radius!

[liner]

any drivers who wanted to do this, could log onto the net with a blackberry and view all available loads and pick what they want, it would be the end of dispatch giving loads to their favorite drivers. because everyone knows dispatch saves the really gravy loads for their favorites drivers or O/O's
the drivers would be able to view all available loads, the same as dispatch can, and the driver can take what he wants, saving work for the dispatchers.





You really need to get out into the real world of trucking for a while to understand that things just aren't that simple!.I'm afraid your method would create twice as much work for a dispatcher...not less!!!

[bikerboy]

Why only company drivers BB? Are they less competent?

I'm @ the 407&410 empty in Bramladesh/Hogtown! I'm blasting to London to get a load for Seattle
because it's within the 100 mile radius. How many hundred loads did I just drive PAST and get paid for it?

As McDonalds say BB "Im Loving It"

I can't believe a major carrier hasn't picked you up BB to be an operations manager!

If a driver was in ANY town he could conceivably drive PAST a load and be within the 100 mile radius!


O/O's pay there own fuel, so they can deadhead as far as they want. fine change that 100 miles to 10 miles, is that better?

companies always complain drivers come and go, and a system like this might help keep drivers, but guys like you are not even willing to give it a chance.

[ralph]

O/O's pay there own fuel, so they can deadhead as far as they want. fine change that 100 miles to 10 miles, is that better?

companies always complain drivers come and go, and a system like this might help keep drivers, but guys like you are not even willing to give it a chance.

And the O/O's are paid by the mile...so what's the difference? More miles MORE revenue for O/O's!

Again, I am truly amazed that Schneider National hasn't drafted you to go to Green Bay and explain this to them! Better yet go to Challenger and sell it to them and THEN you can rub it in their faces that they should have accomodated you and your wisdom years ago when you applied for a job!

[bikerboy]

no wonder the trucking industry is the way it is, its guys like you stuck in the past, who refuse any change.

people once said, trucks could never drive on frozen lakes, and that sure turned out to work good! I am sure you would have been one of the people saying it will never work!

This dispatch system, might not work for every carrier, and won't work for every driver, drivers need to be honest and be able to make good choices.

but if you only hire the right drivers, i think it could work out well, and would really keep those drivers happy, since they picked the load, so don't complain about it.

and O/O could be also limited to ten miles to find a load, unless they want to switch to percentage pay, and all deadheading is free, then they can deadhead a long way for a good load if they want.

you wouldn't need these ten mile limits, once the driver know they need to find a load nearby first, and if none available then find next closest, if a dispatcher can think that way, the driver can too. and if drivers refuse to obey these rules and are deadheading too far too many times, guess what they get fired.

[maan]

Good work Ralph, more & more will want a union the more you talk! Great Job!


Why only company drivers BB? Are they less competent?

I'm @ the 407&410 empty in Bramladesh/Hogtown! I'm blasting to London to get a load for Seattle
because it's within the 100 mile radius. How many hundred loads did I just drive PAST and get paid for it?

As McDonalds say BB "Im Loving It"

I can't believe a major carrier hasn't picked you up BB to be an operations manager!

If a driver was in ANY town he could conceivably drive PAST a load and be within the 100 mile radius!

[ralph]

Stuck in the past...no just realistic. I know the capabilities of drivers. Some are stellar in so many ways and countless are the "meat in the seat"/"steering wheel holder" variety. Some are just WHINERS and seldom happy no matter what the carrier does.

Loved your comment "if you only hired the right drivers", guess once you have Challenger sold on your dispatch system you can overhaul recruiting/driver training! You will have job security and a six figure salary! Better yet, cut yourself in for a % of the company.

If you don't do that you should build your own fleet BB. Hire all those "right drivers" as you describe and give them crackberries and send them out to make you millions! You clearly have it ALL figured out.

[ralph]

Good work Ralph, more & more will want a union the more you talk! Great Job!

I don't have a"dog in the fight" maan. What happens @ CMF will NOT effect me in any way shape or form. I have worked in both enviornments, they both have their plus' and minus'.

Not sure how my comments have ANY influence on the situation but thanks to you maan for the vote of confidence!

[maan]

Thought you would come back at me with a wallop ..I was askin for it

..abit..................:7_4_33[1]:

[BlackIce]

I guess you've been At CMF since at least 1995-1996 because if I remember correctly that is when guys chopped the frames.
Very simple..I just said no.I saw no reason to chop a perfectly good frame when at that time all I did was pull 48' trailers.

Yes I remember the Windsor switches and the LTL loads. Oh and if Dan was the recruiter you should have known not to believe him ...of all people!LOL.


A better argument??? Why? See I have no argument with the way things are done,unlike you.Do I agree with the way everything is done...NO but I also have the choice to stay or leave if I don't like things, but I see no reason to bring in a third party like the teamsters to stir things up. The only ones that will benefit from joining the teamsters will be the teamsters themselves.

Just what will the teamsters do to benefit O/O's.Ask a Highland driver what they did for them! If you've never been a union driver..trust me you aren't missing anything!What's the wheelbase on your tractor now liner?

Is it 244' the legal length for pulling 53ft trailers or does CMF allow you to operate illegally within Ontario or grant you special status to pull a 48ft trailer exclusively.

I fail to understand why Mr Challenger would have an issue with the Teamsters. After all, they are simply trying to do what Mr Challenger was such a proponent off on another issue.

Levelling the playing field.

[maan]

That's a can of worms. Bottom line is watch what you ask for. Of all the Unions that are out there, turned out to be Teamsters involved in a Co that from what I read here: ~ "A union will never happen here".

Sorta goes....

"To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction: or the forces of two bodies on each other are always equal and are directed in opposite directions''. (Newton)

[liner]

What's the wheelbase on your tractor now liner?

Is it 244' the legal length for pulling 53ft trailers or does CMF allow you to operate illegally within Ontario or grant you special status to pull a 48ft trailer exclusively.

I fail to understand why Mr Challenger would have an issue with the Teamsters. After all, they are simply trying to do what Mr Challenger was such a proponent off on another issue.

Levelling the playing field.


That was his issue not mine,and I never did agree with speed limiters!!I fail to see how a union will level the playing field.The teamsters can't do squat for O/O's so why would I want to vote them in?? Company drivers have there own issues that don't really concern me so they can do what they want..oh and just what does wheelbase have to do with the teamsters??

[Pipeman]

That was his issue not mine,and I never did agree with speed limiters!!I fail to see how a union will level the playing field.The teamsters can't do squat for O/O's so why would I want to vote them in?? Company drivers have there own issues that don't really concern me so they can do what they want..oh and just what does wheelbase have to do with the teamsters??What's top stop the Teamsters from negotioating an Owner Operator Agreement???? It's been done before.

[BlackIce]

I guess you've been At CMF since at least 1995-1996 because if I remember correctly that is when guys chopped the frames.
Very simple..I just said no.I saw no reason to chop a perfectly good frame when at that time all I did was pull 48' trailers.

Yes I remember the Windsor switches and the LTL loads. Oh and if Dan was the recruiter you should have known not to believe him ...of all people!LOL.


A better argument??? Why? See I have no argument with the way things are done,unlike you.Do I agree with the way everything is done...NO but I also have the choice to stay or leave if I don't like things, but I see no reason to bring in a third party like the teamsters to stir things up. The only ones that will benefit from joining the teamsters will be the teamsters themselves.

Just what will the teamsters do to benefit O/O's.Ask a Highland driver what they did for them! If you've never been a union driver..trust me you aren't missing anything!


That was his issue not mine,and I never did agree with speed limiters!!I fail to see how a union will level the playing field.The teamsters can't do squat for O/O's so why would I want to vote them in?? Company drivers have there own issues that don't really concern me so they can do what they want..oh and just what does wheelbase have to do with the teamsters??You side stepped an important relevant question to this debate liner. One would question why?

I will ask it again.

http://www.truckstopcanada.ca/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.truckstopcanada.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=26101#post26101) What's the wheelbase on your tractor now liner?

Is it 244' the legal length for pulling 53ft trailers or does CMF allow you to operate illegally within Ontario or grant you special status to pull a 48ft trailer exclusively.

[maan]

What's the wheelbase on your tractor now liner?

Is it 244' the legal length for pulling 53ft trailers or does CMF allow you to operate illegally within Ontario or grant you special status to pull a 48ft trailer exclusively.

I fail to understand why Mr Challenger would have an issue with the Teamsters. After all, they are simply trying to do what Mr Challenger was such a proponent off on another issue.

Levelling the playing field.

Lotsa folks hate unions & some have been burnt being part of a Union. The Teamsters are one of the most visible Unions out there making lotsa noise so no surprise to me that not everyone would welcome them with open arms.

Sounds like its going to be ugly.

The other question you ask may be completely relevant to what's going on but I think most would agree here that no one is obligated to answer any question they don't want to, for whatever their reasons including even where they work.

No doubt some of the issues will only be able to be settled among the drivers & not everything can or will be played out in a public forum.

The unwritten rules here as I understand them are sorta it's up to the individual what they would like to talk about or info they would like to volunteer & no one is obligated to answer any direct question. I would say in particular if it has to do with a dispute involving a Union coming into a Co.

[BlackIce]

Perhaps mann but if one has nothing to hide then one should not be afraid of answering an honest relevant question.

Not answering would indicate guilt at some level don't you think?

[buzzy]

No, I mean this site, what it stands for & the link being pulled by a mod, that has clearly expressed an anti - union bias on this very site. "

First off, my own feelings on the subject had nothing to do with pulling the link. Forum rules state any type of solicitation on this board is forbidden. I left links to news articles both pro and con on this subject matter.

I've pulled links for "stay awake pills", recruiting centres, training schools, direct advertising, direct recruiting, etc. The link posted was for an organization I felt bordered on solicitation of members. I'm not the only moderator on this site. Any one of the other administrators has the power to re-instate an edition. Obviously, most of them agreed with my decision.

If I wanted to abuse my power I would recruit drivers for my organization. I won't do it on this board. If you've noticed I've never ever published who I work for. Some members know, and I thank them for not bringing it up.

Now, before this thread goes any further and "members feel big brother is singling them out by editing posts" I suggest you all go back and read the agreement you all digitally accepted by registering to this site.

[buzzy]

I apologize for not replying sooner......... but this is the first time in 6 days I've even looked at a computer.

[maan]

Perhaps mann but if one has nothing to hide then one should not be afraid of answering an honest relevant question.

Not answering would indicate guilt at some level don't you think?

It might & it might not all I'm saying is I don't think anyone here would disagree that no one is obligated to answer any question(s) for whatever their reasons. I mention it because you just started posting.

And to be honest, I don't have a clue even if the question is relevant.

[liner]

What's top stop the Teamsters from negotioating an Owner Operator Agreement???? It's been done before.

Yes it has...just ask some former Highland O/O's where it got them!! Like I said before I was in the teamsters as an O/O back in the 80's and they will never get anymore money from me for doing nothing...its just that simple.

[Mule Bleue]

Hey Folks,
You should go see the the Teamsters-Challenger web page, about the worker testimony; very interesting spcecialy the second one title " When life lead you ...." very intesrresting about the pshycologic harrassement! To be read!!:bravo:

[Mule Bleue]

Yes it has...just ask some former Highland O/O's where it got them!! Like I said before I was in the teamsters as an O/O back in the 80's and they will never get anymore money from me for doing nothing...its just that simple.

Hey once again; IT IS NOT A MATTER OF MONEY!!!!! So please stop talking about the money; that not the point.

[liner]

You side stepped an important relevant question to this debate liner. One would question why?

I will ask it again.

http://www.truckstopcanada.ca/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.truckstopcanada.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=26101#post26101) What's the wheelbase on your tractor now liner?




Oh so now your BlackIce...thats funny because you already know the answer.

Just how is that an important or relevant question to a debate about the teamsters?

[BlackIce]

It might & it might not all I'm saying is I don't think anyone here would disagree that no one is obligated to answer any question(s) for whatever their reasons. I mention it because you just started posting.

And to be honest, I don't have a clue even if the question is relevant.You can't see how if CMF forced all O/O's to chop their wheelbase but somehow continues to allow liner to operate illegally in Ontario or give him special status of pulling a 48ft trailer would not be relevant to a debate on whether a union with fair and equal treatment for all O/O and drivers might be necessary?

That is, of course, dependent upon liner clarifying whether or not the wheelbase on his tractor is compliant today and no greater than 244 inches in length.

[liner]

Hey once again; IT IS NOT A MATTER OF MONEY!!!!! So please stop talking about the money; that not the point.


Settle down and re-read the post.I never said it was about money,I said it was about the teamsters taking my money!If you want to give them yours,thats your right but I don't need to give them mine!!

[BlackIce]

Oh so now your BlackIce...thats funny because you already know the answer.Did I miss something here? Have you answered the question in this thread and I missed it?


Just how is that an important or relevant question to a debate about the teamsters?My reply to mann's post answers your question.

[liner]

You can't see how if CMF forced all O/O's to chop their wheelbase but somehow continues to allow liner to operate illegally in Ontario or give him special status of pulling a 48ft trailer would not be relevant to a debate on whether a union with fair and equal treatment for all O/O and drivers might be necessary?


Just how is something that was done 15 years ago relevant to the teamsters now!!Back then the senior guys had dedicated runs with 48' trailers, so I guess union or no union we were, and still are the senior guys. Teamsters won't change that!!
I guess we should all be glad if the Teamsters get in because we will still be in the top 5 seniority wise out of 1500 drivers. But oh geeez,that would be special treatment in your mind.

[BlackIce]

Just how is something that was done 15 years ago relevant to the teamsters now!!Back then the senior guys had dedicated runs with 48' trailers, so I guess union or no union we were, and still are the senior guys. Teamsters won't change that!!
I guess we should all be glad if the Teamsters get in because we will still be in the top 5 seniority wise out of 1500 drivers. But oh geeez,that would be special treatment in your mind.What is your current status as it pertains to tractor wheelbase liner?

Relevancy is what CMF permits you to do today while prohibiting others and not applying the same rules.

Your continued avoidance of the question indicates guilt or preferential treatment at some level.

[liner]

What is your current status as it pertains to tractor wheelbase liner?

Relevancy is what CMF permits you to do today while prohibiting others and not applying the same rules.




Since they run the show they can apply whatever rules they like which is there right ,remember the teamsters aren't running the show. We have all seen how good a job unions do at trying to run things, whether it be trucking,automotive,postal whatever.If they want to reward senior drivers with" preferential treatment at some level" as you call it,hey more power to them.Keeps the old guys around.

Is that not exactly what the teamsters do...reward the senior guys with the newer trucks,better runs, more holidays etc??.

Now if I told you my WB was 244 would you be happy,since you seem so concerned about it???

[BlackIce]

Since they run the show they can apply whatever rules they like which is there right ,remember the teamsters aren't running the show. We have all seen how good a job unions do at trying to run things, whether it be trucking,automotive,postal whatever.If they want to reward senior drivers with" preferential treatment at some level" as you call it,hey more power to them.Keeps the old guys around.

Is that not exactly what the teamsters do...reward the senior guys with the newer trucks,better runs, more holidays etc??.To a point yes. But they also ensure that the company's rules and the laws of the province, state and country(s) are also adhered to and equally applied across the board by management.


Now if I told you my WB was 244 would you be happy,since you seem so concerned about it???Would that be an honest answer from you?

[ratfink]

I fail to understand why Mr Challenger would have an issue with the Teamsters. After all, they are simply trying to do what Mr Challenger was such a proponent off on another issue.

Levelling the playing field.


Got a good point there...

[liner]

To a point yes. But they also ensure that the company's rules and the laws of the province, state and country(s) are also adhered to and equally applied across the board by management.

Would that be an honest answer from you?



I think CMF can do that just fine without any help from the teamsters.

Now lets just say for the sake of discussion my WB was 310". Are the teamsters going to make me chop it....I think not.

[BlackIce]

I think CMF can do that just fine without any help from the teamsters.So you're saying your truck can legally pull a 53ft trailer in Ontario and that CMF has never allowed or permitted you to pull a 53ft trailer with your truck having a wheelbase longer than 244 inches?


Now lets just say for the sake of discussion my WB was 310". Are the teamsters going to make me chop it....I think not.No as would be your right not to chop it. But they would make sure you weren't to be dispatched on any load that would place you operating illegally.

[liner]

So you're saying your truck can legally pull a 53ft trailer in Ontario and that CMF has never allowed or permitted you to pull a 53ft trailer with your truck having a wheelbase longer than 244 inches?

No as would be your right not to chop it. But they would make sure you weren't to be dispatched on any load that would place you operating illegally.


In your dreams maybe ! Spoken like a true union troll!!Here's a thought..maybe I don't really give a rats butt about that because it will never happen!!Sure not a concern of mine!!

[ratfink]

No not really...I grew up with the guy and it was always rather well known he liked to "stretch"the truth.

Hey liner, was that mr challenger you were talkin about???

It explain your loyalty to your friend...


Couldn't resist. lol

[liner]

Hey liner, was that mr challenger you were talkin about???

It explain your loyalty to your friend...


Couldn't resist. lol


That would be him...actually went to high school with him.
Loyalty...thats a bit of a stretch.

[ratfink]

just ask some former Highland O/O's where it got them!! Like I said before I was in the teamsters as an O/O back in the 80's and they will never get anymore money from me for doing nothing...its just that simple.

Come on, somewhere in this post I think Ralph told someone to stop living in the past.

You keep brigning up highland and sgt, that 25 + years ago.
we could ask former cmf O/O where non union got them too and I would bet that you will get about the same negatives responses.

What could an union bring to O/O?
well I would think that just by respecting the senority list would certainly help.

Right there this would be a huge improvment over what's going on lately.
I've seen brokers beeing told that theyre dedicated run was cancelled and loads were now on the open board of the wonderfull new system invented by one of the rocket scientist in dispatch.
This new marvel of a system just wont respect any senority.

I dont see a problem with including O/O in there.

[liner]

This was within the last 2 years I believe...not 25 years ago.This was also after many O/O's had given up and left Highland!




Highland Owner-Operators Take New Deal

Amid threats their carrier would be shuttered, unionized Highland Transport owner-operators voted to accept a new contract in August for less pay, among other concessions.
The fleet had spent three months trying to get its owner-ops to accept changes to their collective agreement before it expired in December. After voting down the first offer in June, the drivers were urged by their union to accept Highland's final offer.

The new deal, among other concessions, asked drivers to give up their 48-cent-per-liter cap on fuel for a new fuel surcharge program, which requires the drivers to pay the full cost of diesel upfront. The new contract also cuts the rate per mile by 2.5 cents for all non-heavy-haul loads and empty miles.

Dorothy Sanderson, health and safety rep for the owner-ops, says she's surprised of the vote results and will urge the company to open the contract early again, if conditions turn around.
"If things change for the better (and) fuel continues to decline, I (would hope) that the contract can be revisited and changed to better reflect the business environment in the next two years," she says.

Shortly after the new contract was accepted, division president Jim Houston said Highland is in good shape and ready to begin growing market share again.

Houston insists the company was serious about shutting down if the terms were rejected and he defended the company's actions, saying it was the only way to stay unionized and competitive in central Canada's general truckload sector.



jpark@highwaystar.ca

[maan]

Given your stated position in these forums comparing Unions to ~"Bin Laden & terrorist organizations", what is your position in regards to those views & being a mod on a trucking site?

First off, my own feelings on the subject had nothing to do with pulling the link. Forum rules state any type of solicitation on this board is forbidden. I left links to news articles both pro and con on this subject matter.

I've pulled links for "stay awake pills", recruiting centres, training schools, direct advertising, direct recruiting, etc. The link posted was for an organization I felt bordered on solicitation of members. I'm not the only moderator on this site. Any one of the other administrators has the power to re-instate an edition. Obviously, most of them agreed with my decision.

If I wanted to abuse my power I would recruit drivers for my organization. I won't do it on this board. If you've noticed I've never ever published who I work for. Some members know, and I thank them for not bringing it up.

Now, before this thread goes any further and "members feel big brother is singling them out by editing posts" I suggest you all go back and read the agreement you all digitally accepted by registering to this site.

[maan]

Not to mention you (& possibly others) also appear to be Management?

[buzzy]

Yes, I am management. I'm also a moderator on this board. I have worked both sides of the fence, in both capacities as labour and management in union and non union organizations.

My own opinion has nothing to do with performing an obligation I made to the administration of this board.


Originally Posted by buzzy
First off, my own feelings on the subject had nothing to do with pulling the link. Forum rules state any type of solicitation on this board is forbidden. I left links to news articles both pro and con on this subject matter.

I've pulled links for "stay awake pills", recruiting centres, training schools, direct advertising, direct recruiting, etc. The link posted was for an organization I felt bordered on solicitation of members. I'm not the only moderator on this site. Any one of the other administrators has the power to re-instate an edition. Obviously, most of them agreed with my decision.


Now, before this thread goes any further and "members feel big brother is singling them out by editing posts" I suggest you all go back and read the agreement you all digitally accepted by registering to this site.

Other than monitoring this thread I have not made any comment either way on the issue. However.. whatever the outcome it is up to the employees themselves to locate the pertinent information they require to make whatever decision they deem fulfills their needs.

Obviously there are company and contract drivers from CMF on this thread. Bad-mouthing either, pro or con, is contractory to standing board regulations.

[ratfink]

Houston insists the company was serious about shutting down if the terms were rejected and he defended the company's actions, saying it was the only way to stay unionized and competitive in central Canada's general truckload sector.



Of course that mr president will say that his company is now competitive now that he won the negotiation and got them to take a cut
Little arrogant dont you think?

They got scared and didnt stand up,
I dont care what union strongly recommend's it's not the union who ultimatly decides.

Hey, for years, we heard mr cmf (or his brother) say that he would shut down if union comes in.

Didnt hear him say that since Teamsters started makin noise.
They threat to close if union comes in? fine, lets see if they have balls to do it.

Is this where trucking is heading?
Is this where those big companies prezidents want to lead us?
Last time those brain surgeons came up with a brillant idea, we ended up with a law limiting the speed at 105 kms.
All presidents of companies who wants to cut pay to be so called competitive?

Look where we ended up?

If we want to make a decent living , like someone said in this tread, we have to be willing to be on the road 24 hrs and 7 days a week for as long as mr dispatch wants to, forget family or social life

Why is it only the drivers who has to take a hit?
Why not look closely at how much bad decisions from rocket scientists on a powertrip who comes up with all kind of dispatch systems when they never been in a truck on the road instead.

How many O/O are left at cmf?
Last year they fired a bunch of them, some didnt get any explanation on why. I talked to one of them and he said that all they told him it was not anything personal but had to leave.
No notice or anything, just mr safety that pulled the plates and please leave the terminal.
And this was not one or two bad apples but a whole bunch of them.
So I would guess that only what 100 or 150 are still there.

IF guys stand up to the company, with a contract it would be harder to just fire them just because.

[maan]

IF guys stand up to the company, with a contract it would be harder to just fire them just because.
True but some have also lost their shirts when a strike ends up closing a Co?

[ratfink]

True but some have also lost their shirts when a strike ends up closing a Co?

What I meant is that when a company threats to close, heck theres still life after.

How many companies dissapeared and as far as I'm concerned, theres still freight to haul.

[BlackIce]

In your dreams maybe ! Spoken like a true union troll!!Here's a thought..maybe I don't really give a rats butt about that because it will never happen!!Sure not a concern of mine!!Are you saying then that your truck's wheelbase still exceeds 244inches and CMF allows you to operate it hooked to a 53ft trailer in Ontario and you're not concerned about it being illegal or having to chop it?

Or

Are you saying you're not concerned because you don't think Mr Challenger will allow the Teamsters in, that he will shut the doors on CMF before that were to occur?


Please clarify your comments thanks.

[maan]

Yes, I am management. I'm also a moderator on this board. I have worked both sides of the fence, in both capacities as labour and management in union and non union organizations.

My own opinion has nothing to do with performing an obligation I made to the administration of this board..

I would question that particularly with the comments you so easily threw out in another thread regarding Unions, but we shall see..

Given that you've worked both sides of the fence, you would know that fo some of us, it is nothing less than US vs THEM,

Your public comments regarding Unions & as a mod in these forums were highly inflammatory & noted.

If you had said them as a regular poster, that's one thing, Having said them as a mod & part of management is another kettle of fish.

[liner]

Ratfink...your a company driver,I'm an O/O.If the company drivers want a union then vote them in,its your right to do so.Myself and other O/O's have no use for the teamsters so we will not be helping to vote them in,which is also our right.It wouldn't be the first place that had union company drivers and non-union O/O's.The trouble with that would be that eventually the company could become a totally non-union O/O company.

If as you call him "Mr Challenger chooses to shut the place down or sell out ,rather than let the teamsters in,that is also his right.It's also my opinion that the teamsters will never get enough votes to win anyways and even if they do, how long do you think its going to take to get a first contract! Heck I'll be retired before that happens.

Bottom line....your pro-union and I'm anti-union so I really don't no what more I can say!Do what you gotta do!

[buzzy]

I would question that particularly with the comments you so easily threw out in another thread regarding Unions, but we shall see..

Given that you've worked both sides of the fence, you would know that fo some of us, it is nothing less than US vs THEM,

Your public comments regarding Unions & as a mod in these forums were highly inflammatory & noted.

If you had said them as a regular poster, that's one thing, Having said them as a mod & part of management is another kettle of fish.

My opinions were stated in a totally unrelated thread. On that thread I was entitled to my say, no different than anyone else.

I have tried to stay neutral in regards to CMF's problems. I know drivers and O/O's that work there.

Regardless of anyones' opinion, I will monitor what is printed in this thread.

Should ANY link be posted, pro or con for the union involved, I WILL delete them.

SHOULD any member verbally attack another member, I WILL delete the post.

NOW, I SUGGEST YOU READ THIS BOARD'S CHARTER. or do you not read contracts before you sign them?