Unions: Why are people so naive about them?

[MHL1965]

I can probably answer my own question, but I will put it to the board. People, such as the SGT guy talking about not getting the contract in the Challenger Thread obviously have no idea how they work. People ASSUME they know how they work, based on the stupid statements from people like Buzz Hargrove and the many idiots in the gov't public sector unions.

I am not a union guy by nature. I was a steward for the Teamsters for 2 years. I learned why they do what they do, how they do it, and while I don't agree with their political stances, I do understand why companies who get unions had it coming to them. I worked for one...

I also know by nature, people, and especially truckers, who tend to be slightly anti-social at times are LOATHE to sign union cards. Yet we could see the day when the largest single location carrier in Ontario just might end up with a union. Something has to have changed there.

So I ask the question, why do people actually know so little about what is going on inside of them, and why are they so SCARED of them? If a union local bargains too hard and the company walks away, then maybe I can understand the anger BUT lets all remember this much. Companies are really putting the screws to the guys driving the truck. Especially in OTR companies where rarely do you see unions. Guys are making less in the way of a living wage...so again, what are you guys scared of? Someone has to move the freight boys....and I can tell you this much. Challenger goes union, there will be a real eye opening for a lot of shady jerks in this business who figure we are a bunch of sheep...

[ratfink]

I think it has a lot to do with how much the nasty unions will take from theyre paychecks and the obligation they have to pay those fees.

It always amazes me that they will kick for that reason but wont say a word on drivers services agency who in my opinion are taking a much bigger chunk of money off theyre pay.

Drivers forgot that in a agency you are a rented piece of equipment who's only purpice is to satisfy the customer. The carrier.

[MHL1965]

I think it has a lot to do with how much the nasty unions will take from theyre paychecks and the obligation they have to pay those fees.

It always amazes me that they will kick for that reason but wont say a word on drivers services agency who in my opinion are taking a much bigger chunk of money off theyre pay.

Drivers forgot that in a agency you are a rented piece of equipment who's only purpice is to satisfy the customer. The carrier.

Well I worked through an agency at Verspeeten for 6 years until the Union showed up. I figured the agency was taking about 2 dollars an hour from us. That is a heck of a lot more than what I paid in union dues...


The fear of paying dues is a joke. These same guys will turn around and vote for politicians over and over again and they cost them more in raised taxes....

[ratfink]

These same guys will turn around and vote for politicians over and over again and they cost them more in raised taxes....

And will do the same thing, wont get involved.
Wont ask questions, Wont vote , wont go to meettings etc.

[MHL1965]

And will do the same thing, wont get involved.
Wont ask questions, Wont vote , wont go to meettings etc.

Yup. When the union came to Verspeeten, I was elected a steward in the first meeting because I wanted to know how it all worked, never having worked in a union shop. I wanted to understand a lot of the things Unions do that sound strange to outsiders. AS someone who was mildly anti-union in the past, I figured I would be able to ensure some idiot didn't go in there throwing bombs and grivenances where there were none. We didn't have the best contract, but it was better than the one we didn't have...and I made a go of it. I had 100 plus guys with another steward to try to educate and I suspect half of them just couldn't care less except every month when they saw their dues coming out.....then they would b!tch and moan how they wanted to dump the union. These same guys were the ones most likely to stab each other and me in the back, and the same guys who sucked up to management when they could, while bad mouthing management to me the next. It is a fact of life..

Still doesn't change the fact that most of the guys out there, including a lot paying union dues wouldn't do and say some of the stupid things they do if they really asked a steward to explain the process to them.

[1-800-bigtruck]

I think part of the problem why people are so scared of the union is they hear all the horor stories of the big unions in other sectors , big money , benifits coming out there rear , pensions to die for ect., ect. and then the famous phrase , "that's not my job" , well not all union shops are like that .
It would take a long time if ever in ths industy to get any were near that , a good union local will see both sides of the situation , but not be in the back pocket of the employer ,. , and then there's the dues , people don't like paying them , but lets say CMF was already unionized , I don't think they would have lost there border cross pay , to pay for that fancy new terminal ,if they had a good contract and a good executive commitee .
As to why some want a union , might be because they see every thing going up in costs but they arn't seeing there bank accounts going up , but 2009 was a very difficult year for every one .

[maan]

Lotsa folks are brainwashed, others just don't mind going with the flow..

[ralph]

[QUOTE=ratfink;26966]
It always amazes me that they will kick for that reason but wont say a word on drivers services agency who in my opinion are taking a much bigger chunk of money off theyre pay. QUOTE]

ratfink, I have said this before and I will say it again...Profit isn't a word that you can't say @ church/mass on Sunday. Simply put, profit is what makes the world go around. Do you honestly believe that carriers (CMF, Highland) are paying a driver service MORE for their drivers than what their own staff cost them? They have the same expenses (more or less) so the costs will be the same or similar. Driver services fill a specific need for short term driver requirements. After that if a driver continues to work @ a carrier through the service who is right/who is wrong? If the driver is paid the same amount of money that he would be with the carrier and getting the same bennies...what's/where's the incentive to change his employer's anme from XYZ driver services to XYZ carrier?

[ratfink]

[quote=ratfink;26966]
It always amazes me that they will kick for that reason but wont say a word on drivers services agency who in my opinion are taking a much bigger chunk of money off theyre pay. QUOTE]

ratfink, I have said this before and I will say it again...Profit isn't a word that you can't say @ church/mass on Sunday. Simply put, profit is what makes the world go around. Do you honestly believe that carriers (CMF, Highland) are paying a driver service MORE for their drivers than what their own staff cost them? They have the same expenses (more or less) so the costs will be the same or similar. Driver services fill a specific need for short term driver requirements. After that if a driver continues to work @ a carrier through the service who is right/who is wrong? If the driver is paid the same amount of money that he would be with the carrier and getting the same bennies...what's/where's the incentive to change his employer's anme from XYZ driver services to XYZ carrier?

If it was only temporary I wouldn't mind so much, I know guys who worked for a long time at highland for an agency, in that period of time, highland change agency a bunch of times.
The reason? like you say, cost less bennies, agency X were charging less than agency Y, so highland transfered the driving staff to the new agency.
What do you think happened each time they did that?

well since mr driver changed employer (not his choice but still changed employer), his benefits were lost, he had to start all over again, 3 month before his medical benefits came back, he lost his vacations.
before he was allowed 4 weeks vacation since he has been there a long while and now he lost that. back to 1 week a year.
new driver to the agency not highland.

Company saved money but drivers lost again.

[ralph]

[quote=ralph;26995]
well since mr driver changed employer (not his choice but still changed employer), his benefits were lost, he had to start all over again, 3 month before his medical benefits came back, he lost his vacations.
before he was allowed 4 weeks vacation since he has been there a long while and now he lost that. back to 1 week a year.
new driver to the agency not highland.

Company saved money but drivers lost again.

The driver DID have a choice...no one held a gun to his head and said "you now work for zyx driver pool, NOT XYZ". If the driver doesn't like it he can stay with zyx, maintain his pay, benefits and seniority. IF zyx doesn't have work they then lay him off and he gets separation/severance pay. I know this is a simplistic view BUT the driver does have a choice. Highland and their driver service is not the only employer.

[maan]

R - you missed it on the end Quote this time.
You had: quote] & it has to be like this to work -> [/quote]
you can fiddle with it by hitting preview rather than submit. That way you see how it comes out before posting.

[WannaDrive]

my last job was unionized. Steelworkers. Was there for almost 5 years. Unions are bull****, nothing but a business. I was pro-union at first until I saw countless drug addicts fired and rehired 4,5, even 6 times. Also burns my balls when I bust my ass everyday only to get layed off cuz i'm low seniority and some lazy ungrateful piece of **** gets to stay. Not to mention all the backroom deals most don't hear about that are made with the company. Ph, what about the weekend "courses" the union execs go away for on our tab, only to feast on room service and drink their faces off. I know how it works, my best bud is vice president of the executive at my old job, the stories I have heard....

[MHL1965]

[quote=ratfink;26998]

The driver DID have a choice...no one held a gun to his head and said "you now work for zyx driver pool, NOT XYZ". If the driver doesn't like it he can stay with zyx, maintain his pay, benefits and seniority. IF zyx doesn't have work they then lay him off and he gets separation/severance pay. I know this is a simplistic view BUT the driver does have a choice. Highland and their driver service is not the only employer.

You are right. The driver can go elsewhere, but then the guy who replaces him gets no benefits and the company saves.

IN the case of Verspeeten, the agency dodge was done by them to keep the Union OUT. The guys who all signed union cards in the 80's when they voted for the union we all told they were fired and if they wanted to see a Verspeeten truck again, they could go to a driver agency (A) or later another agency (B) and then A or B would hear all their stupid complaints and look after their benefits. Verspeeten also moved their operation to another yard near by to skirt the labour board. This was in the Oshawa/Whitby operation. The Tillsonburg operation was the home base, so they couldn't leave it, but they leased a yard in Woodstock, did the same sort of nonsense and shipped all the work out of the Tillsonburg bargaining unit til their was a token workforce of 10 drivers and a couple of mechanics. Later, the Woodstock yard was transferred to Ingersoll, and of course all the workers hired to work there were not from the group in Tillsonburg. Apparently you couldn't switch out of Tillsonburg's Union yard to work anywhere else with Verspeeten. Anyone want to know how effective the negotiating for the contract was when guys were being laid off at Tillsonburg, the work was shipped to Woodstock and later Ingersoll and the union guys were NOT hired? Morale? yeesh...it was a mess.

The cost of all this likely was huge. Didn't bother Verspeeten obviously because they so feared the union. Irrationally so. When our yard in Oshawa/Whitby eventually WENT union (at the point of the gun by the Canadian Labour Board) Verspeeten was slapped with paying the Union's lawyer fees, plus dictated wherever the company went in Ontario, they would be with the Teamsters. I don't know how it made sense for them financially to fight the union that hard but if they will do that, then they would have no problem paying agencies more for drivers.

The sad reality is they did pay the agencies more than they would have if they kept us inhouse in the long run, although they tried to compensate for that by firing out all the staff needed to do a lot of the payroll functions save one girl.

Companies will willingly pay an agency more for a driver over the long term if they don't have to staff to look after the drivers, they don't have to listen to the drivers, and they can tell the agency at a moments notice that if a guy isn't to their liking, don't send him back. THAT was what Verspeeten REALLY liked doing. No due process after you were there for 3 months. IF Dennis Verspeeten or Ron or one of the other brothers didn't like your attitude, you could be gone tomorrow, and there was jack all you could do about it. THAT is one of the biggest reasons an agency works for a lot of these employers who hate to be held accountable.

The reality in trucking today is the worker has no leverage, no voice and no chance but for the grace of the quality of the people he works for to improve his workplace. If you work for people not willing to improve things, you are faced with leaving, or signing a union card. After moving around to about 5 or 6 different companies in 14 years, you quickly realize maybe there is a better way..or at least one that should be considered. Not every union or local or situation works well with unionization, but often, it cant hurt either. We are being, screwed, tattooed, and abused the way things are now. Tell me how else to get a hammer to threaten the status quo. Where I just quit, management didn't listen to us, didn't communicate, hasn't handed out a raise in 5 years and expected us drivers to go to the mat for them while they sat comfortable in their offices pondering where to play golf this summer. AND THIS COMPANY isn't the WORST by a long shot. No...I would love to have had a union recruiter sniffing around making him apolectic. About time the fat pig feared something besides not being able to go to Vegas in May...

[ratfink]

[quote=ratfink;26998]

The driver DID have a choice...no one held a gun to his head and said "you now work for zyx driver pool, NOT XYZ". If the driver doesn't like it he can stay with zyx, maintain his pay, benefits and seniority. IF zyx doesn't have work they then lay him off and he gets separation/severance pay. I know this is a simplistic view BUT the driver does have a choice. Highland and their driver service is not the only employer.

no youre right he did have a choice, but some guys dont like to jump from an employer to another, they dont like starting all over again with a new employer all the time.
they know dispatch, the routes, customers.

[ralph]

[quote=ralph;27002]

no youre right he did have a choice, but some guys dont like to jump from an employer to another, they dont like starting all over again with a new employer all the time.
they know dispatch, the routes, customers.

When they change from XYZ Driver Pool to ABC Driver Services they are changing. You are confusing the business they are sent to drive for with their employer. The driver pool/service is the employer as that is who pays them.

[MHL1965]

[quote=ratfink;27023]

When they change from XYZ Driver Pool to ABC Driver Services they are changing. You are confusing the business they are sent to drive for with their employer. The driver pool/service is the employer as that is who pays them.

When they change agencies, the benefits are either discontinued or changed. The whole problem with the pimps is the company leaves the drivers hanging out to dry. You have a problem with the agency, the company doesn't care. If you have a problem with the company, the agency tells you to suck it up. No accountablity.

[MHL1965]

my last job was unionized. Steelworkers. Was there for almost 5 years. Unions are bull****, nothing but a business. I was pro-union at first until I saw countless drug addicts fired and rehired 4,5, even 6 times. Also burns my balls when I bust my ass everyday only to get layed off cuz i'm low seniority and some lazy ungrateful piece of **** gets to stay. Not to mention all the backroom deals most don't hear about that are made with the company. Ph, what about the weekend "courses" the union execs go away for on our tab, only to feast on room service and drink their faces off. I know how it works, my best bud is vice president of the executive at my old job, the stories I have heard....

First off, the drug addicts getting hired back isn't something I agree with either, and I know that there is more to it than just them being hired back. There is also the thorny issue of the labour laws for firing for just cause and a whole process you have no idea about. That said, I am not in favour it either, and had we had such a case at Verspeeten Whitby when I was there, I would have not been in favour of going to the mat for those guys either. Backroom deals do NOT happen if the members are paying attention and making it plain they know how to call up the labour board to lay charges of "nonrepresentation". A bunch of apathetic zombies get what they deserve.

As for the "freebies", it didn't make up for the BS, stupid questions, hours of going over grievances and other crap, not to mention wearing a bullseye with management to tee off on at every opportunity. I didn't get any great amount of freebies nor did I ask for any.

[liner]

Another opinion about unions.This article was followed by comments from readers that appear to be anti union also. Check it out at the Truck News website.





To unionize or not to unionize, that is the question
Posted by Harry Rudolfs at 04:32 PM

Really, I can't think of a topic that's more polarizing to the trucking community. And I should start by declaring my bias: working truck driver and IBT member as well as a freelance writer. In a past incarnation, I used to joke that I paid union dues to Jimmy Hoffa Jr., wrote copy for Conrad Black, and hauled sliced bread for Gaelen Weston. These days I'm just a peon in the Purolator linehaul network and I've never been politically active with any union or local. So the following is my opinion and doesn't represent anyone or anything. My brief survey of a few Challenger drivers below is unscientific and anecdotal in nature.

But Teamsters Canada president Bob Bouvier's vow to organize Callenger Motor Freight of Cambridge, Ont. might have less substance than his strident press release would have you believe. True, Challenger is in expansion mode and possibly some drivers are being courted by Teamsters, but the unionization process is never easy and this is a tight company with some very loyal employees.

My job puts me in contact with a variety of Challenger drivers almost daily and I'm always happy to ask them what they think. Everyone of them has heard about the Teamsters initiative, and the response varies from mild interest to disparaging comments.

“A union like that is only good for lazy drivers,” one Quebec driver told me. Well, not exactly, but a union environment makes it very difficult to fire drivers, and family companies faced with the prospect of a unionized work force are loathe to give up control of personnel issues.

The other side of the coin is that carriers paying top dollar don't have any trouble finding good drivers. Ideally, the lead hand system allows work to carry on without the presence of management. The drivers are supposed to be the best and most capable and should know what doors to fill, what runs have to go, etc., without the presence of a supervisor.

Another Challenger company driver, a former Teamster, told me he liked the job, but thought the base rate was a little low. Another man, a newly hired owner operator from the west coast told me he liked all the extras, free showers, laundry, etc. He added that his recruiter was incredibly attentive to him whenever he called in.

Stats Canada figures indicate that unionized drivers make a bit more than non-union drivers and work slightly less hours. From my perspective, after working for driver services and random carriers, I went gunning for the best paying jobs and they were usually union fleets.

But every month $61 from my paycheque goes to the IBT (I'd be curious to know how much stays in Canada and how much goes to the head office in Washington). Make no mistake, Teamsters are a big corporate union and historically have been able to get a good rate for their members. But it's not the only union model in Canada. If I remember correctly, roughly just under 20% of truck drivers are represented by a union in Canada. Besides IBT, Steelworkers, CAW, UFCW and Chemical Electrical and Paperworkers all have a trucking component as part of their membership.

No company welcomes unionization: it's too much trouble, it will reduce profits, they'll ask for too much, they'll be too strong and shut the plant down in the event of a dispute. But there are potential benefits to a union model. A collective agreement spells out exactly the duties and responsibilities of employees and management. And although the grievance system my be time-consuming, once a company gets to a certain size, it helps to have a standard disciplinary protocol in place. After a labour board ruling a few years back, Mackie Moving Systems of Oshawa, Ont. was organized by Teamsters local 938 and, unofficially, I don't think the process was particularly painful for either party.

Are drivers better off in a union? From my perspective. yes, but only very slightly and it really depends upon your situation. Some owner operators would never consider working for a union while others don't have any problem with a collective agreement. The Challenger drivers I talked to weren't exactly hopping out of their trucks to sign a union card

[MHL1965]

Excellent post Liner. Harry see's it much the way I do. The only thing he should know is the Teamsters getting into Mackies (and Verspeeten, THAT was part of the same labour board hearings) WAS painful for both sides in a sense. The union went to certify in the early 90's I believe and both Mackie's and Verspeeten dragged the process out in the courts and with the Labour board until the labour board had to basically re write the intpretation of Canadian labour law. The companies ended up paying the union's legal bills and I suspect this wouldn't be as easy as Harry said.

I know that Mackie's has been able to work with the union tho. Verspeeten isn't working with 938 any more, but They were more resistant.

I can grasp why companies don't want to be unionized. I understand the implications, and if I ran a company I would want flexability to make changes without having to consult a contract or deal with the union BUT if guys are willing to sign cards, then you are not doing something right. Drivers don't like unions instinctively, and are relucatant to sign cards. From the sounds of this article, the Teamsters must think there is blood in the water and they want to capitalize.

That said, they tried to unionize Casino Rama and failed and tried to get a few of the OLG casino's and failed. It is a bit of a crap shoot, and companies when pressed usually make changes or use their leverage of guilt and threats to scare people from signing cards and then going through with the vote. IT is by the way, as it should be. It should never be too easy to unionize a company, it should be done with some deliberation, but I am never sympathtic to companies that don't grasp you have to be ethical and do things that are fair if you respect your employees. That is part of the reason I have stated more than once I don't think the Challenger effort will succeed....

[Drifter]

Driver services come in two flavors, legitamate and company owned. Green co. owns their driver service thru a relationship (boyfriend-girlfriend) this is just short of a scam. Maybe they did pay ser/driv same rate, whoopie!! Did nothing for seniority within Co. or job security. They do not have to lay you off, simply tell U.I. no papers as we have other contracts.

Union shops will make large issues out of temp workers, for several really strong an valid reasons.

[Pipeman]

One thing the Teamsters have always had is a good PENSION plan. What do non union carriers have for your future.

A lot of people don't like unions and as such they probably can't stand prosperity.

[Mercenary]

Just the benefits in safety alone would be worth signing a union card. I would guess that many folks here have been put into situations that they didn't feel comfortable doing. Weather it was running over hours or driving in conditions that they just didn't feel were safe. Non-union drivers today don't have a voice and are being taken advantage of.

[red_5.0]

One thing the Teamsters have always had is a good PENSION plan. What do non union carriers have for your future.

A lot of people don't like unions and as such they probably can't stand prosperity.



Agreed. Most drivers have been in the game too long to know what a 'NORMAL' well paying position is. IE: paid benefits, pension contributions, sick days, etc. etc.

I once found out that the 'office staff & management' at the OTR company I used to work for had a much better benefit plan than us lowly drivers. They gave me the wrong benefit schedule by mistake. Turns out the large number of drivers were basically just subsidizing their plans.

[MHL1965]

Driver services come in two flavors, legitamate and company owned. Green co. owns their driver service thru a relationship (boyfriend-girlfriend) this is just short of a scam. Maybe they did pay ser/driv same rate, whoopie!! Did nothing for seniority within Co. or job security. They do not have to lay you off, simply tell U.I. no papers as we have other contracts.

Union shops will make large issues out of temp workers, for several really strong an valid reasons.

Gee...would you speaking about one of my former employers who is now solely owned by a guy who is engaged with one of the biggest driver agencies in South Western Ontario? lol....Yup...but that wouldn't bother them....

[MHL1965]

Agreed. Most drivers have been in the game too long to know what a 'NORMAL' well paying position is. IE: paid benefits, pension contributions, sick days, etc. etc.

I once found out that the 'office staff & management' at the OTR company I used to work for had a much better benefit plan than us lowly drivers. They gave me the wrong benefit schedule by mistake. Turns out the large number of drivers were basically just subsidizing their plans.

Gee...why am I not surprised? Maybe that is because to them, drivers are truly "a dime a dozen" (a quote that came from one of the Mackie family more than once I heard); while good dispatchers and office staff are A)harder to find and B) usually seen as more valuable.

The Teamster's plan is only in play if the company agrees to it. IT is a collectively bargained thing and it is a complicated and often hard measure to get companies to agree to because then they are paying for a plan they have ZERO control over. I know with Verspeeten, THAT wasn't going to fly. They wanted to control the benefits because they wanted to have yet another hammer to use. One of our drivers lost a leg to Cancer and they tried to cut up him off of the long term disability under the contract. THey felt, since he couldn't drive for them no more, he was no longer an employee. Of course, if they took the time to read the collective agreement, they would have known under either form of disability, status of employee didn't matter as long as the employee wasn't fired or willingly had quit. Any effort to try to be dorks seemed to be the plan, just to wind up the union. They never did figure out how they got the union in the first place....

[liner]

Written by Blair R. Wilson

Members of the CAW will be holding several demonstrations across the country beginning Saturday.

They say they are in discontent with Prime Minister Steven Harper's prorogation of parliament.

Stated in a release by Ingersoll's CAW Local 88 Member Dan Borthwick, it says " Working women and men can’t afford to take three months off to recalibrate and we fully expect our elected officials to act responsibly on our behalf and that means getting back to work " !

The CAW is urging all members, activists and allies to take part in in the events that include most major cities across the country.



I don't agree with Harpers decision,...but the CAW telling people to get to work....now that's funny.:rofl2[1]:

[ralph]

I don't agree with Harpers decision,...but the CAW telling people to get to work....now that's funny.:rofl2[1]:

Good point Liner...there's no greater bunch of "dog breeders" than the CAW workers!

[maan]

oh yeah give me 100 70 paid 50 and a life on the road anyday

[maan]

Good point Liner...there's no greater bunch of "dog breeders" than the CAW workers!that's also what alota folks think about lazy fat dumb truckers sittin on their fat arses all day dincha know :rofl2[1]:

[MHL1965]

Written by Blair R. Wilson

Members of the CAW will be holding several demonstrations across the country beginning Saturday.

They say they are in discontent with Prime Minister Steven Harper's prorogation of parliament.

Stated in a release by Ingersoll's CAW Local 88 Member Dan Borthwick, it says " Working women and men can’t afford to take three months off to recalibrate and we fully expect our elected officials to act responsibly on our behalf and that means getting back to work " !

The CAW is urging all members, activists and allies to take part in in the events that include most major cities across the country.



I don't agree with Harpers decision,...but the CAW telling people to get to work....now that's funny.:rofl2[1]:

Where I do agree with you Liner, I cant stand unions getting involved in politics, and I have ZERO time for the CAW. If they were so wonderful, they wouldn't have negotiated about 6000 jobs out of existence here in Durham Region in the last decade. Of course, they are the CAW, they don't figure they need to understand the economy.

As for the idiots and proroging parliament, all those marching are the idiots that wouldn't vote for Harper anyhow.

I am glad we wont have that side show going on while the world visits during the Olympics....

[Mule Bleue]

Another opinion about unions.This article was followed by comments from readers that appear to be anti union also. Check it out at the Truck News website.





To unionize or not to unionize, that is the question
Posted by Harry Rudolfs at 04:32 PM

Really, I can't think of a topic that's more polarizing to the trucking community. And I should start by declaring my bias: working truck driver and IBT member as well as a freelance writer. In a past incarnation, I used to joke that I paid union dues to Jimmy Hoffa Jr., wrote copy for Conrad Black, and hauled sliced bread for Gaelen Weston. These days I'm just a peon in the Purolator linehaul network and I've never been politically active with any union or local. So the following is my opinion and doesn't represent anyone or anything. My brief survey of a few Challenger drivers below is unscientific and anecdotal in nature.

But Teamsters Canada president Bob Bouvier's vow to organize Callenger Motor Freight of Cambridge, Ont. might have less substance than his strident press release would have you believe. True, Challenger is in expansion mode and possibly some drivers are being courted by Teamsters, but the unionization process is never easy and this is a tight company with some very loyal employees.

My job puts me in contact with a variety of Challenger drivers almost daily and I'm always happy to ask them what they think. Everyone of them has heard about the Teamsters initiative, and the response varies from mild interest to disparaging comments.

“A union like that is only good for lazy drivers,” one Quebec driver told me. Well, not exactly, but a union environment makes it very difficult to fire drivers, and family companies faced with the prospect of a unionized work force are loathe to give up control of personnel issues.

The other side of the coin is that carriers paying top dollar don't have any trouble finding good drivers. Ideally, the lead hand system allows work to carry on without the presence of management. The drivers are supposed to be the best and most capable and should know what doors to fill, what runs have to go, etc., without the presence of a supervisor.

Another Challenger company driver, a former Teamster, told me he liked the job, but thought the base rate was a little low. Another man, a newly hired owner operator from the west coast told me he liked all the extras, free showers, laundry, etc. He added that his recruiter was incredibly attentive to him whenever he called in.

Stats Canada figures indicate that unionized drivers make a bit more than non-union drivers and work slightly less hours. From my perspective, after working for driver services and random carriers, I went gunning for the best paying jobs and they were usually union fleets.

But every month $61 from my paycheque goes to the IBT (I'd be curious to know how much stays in Canada and how much goes to the head office in Washington). Make no mistake, Teamsters are a big corporate union and historically have been able to get a good rate for their members. But it's not the only union model in Canada. If I remember correctly, roughly just under 20% of truck drivers are represented by a union in Canada. Besides IBT, Steelworkers, CAW, UFCW and Chemical Electrical and Paperworkers all have a trucking component as part of their membership.

No company welcomes unionization: it's too much trouble, it will reduce profits, they'll ask for too much, they'll be too strong and shut the plant down in the event of a dispute. But there are potential benefits to a union model. A collective agreement spells out exactly the duties and responsibilities of employees and management. And although the grievance system my be time-consuming, once a company gets to a certain size, it helps to have a standard disciplinary protocol in place. After a labour board ruling a few years back, Mackie Moving Systems of Oshawa, Ont. was organized by Teamsters local 938 and, unofficially, I don't think the process was particularly painful for either party.

Are drivers better off in a union? From my perspective. yes, but only very slightly and it really depends upon your situation. Some owner operators would never consider working for a union while others don't have any problem with a collective agreement. The Challenger drivers I talked to weren't exactly hopping out of their trucks to sign a union card

About the amount of money that is going to Washington: I know that Teamsters an USWA an may some more of the International Union, that most of the money stay here in Canada. Lots of those large Union have now their independence .

Thanks Liner for posting an impartial news!

[MHL1965]

Mule, I can assure you most of the money stays in Canada. From what I know of just the finances of local 938 when I was a steward, and some simple math tells me that better than 3/4 of the cash never really leaves the local level, and not much goes to head office in Montreal. What the Teamsters in Washington gets is probably hardly not much more than percentage points of the dues....and when you consider the lobbying the Teamsters do with Congress for things that do effect Canadian drivers indirectly (what happens in the US inevitably works its way up here when you talk transportation laws) that this money is having a positive impact.

[canuck in da truck]

here is a bit of union versus company info--check out local teamster homepage about who is joining union--then think about which of those companies was just just closed up by its parent company{ wich happens to be union but the owners hate it with a passion}--notice no nice big black trucks coming out of mississauga anymore ? Was there 11 yrs and dropped like a hot potatoe- just another nice family run company, and they wonder why even in europe nobody will come to drive for them, now they are recuiting out of phillipines---such is life i guess

[ralph]

You don't have to be so vague and evasive. I think the fleet you're referring to (your story you name them) had one black flagship truck with a mural. They went TU and were kicked around for a while (Apps Cartage was rumoured to be buying) until the stubble jumpers from SK bought them. Big carrier with lots of divisions. Am I correct?

[canuck in da truck]

you nailed it on the head --wasnt sure if it was ok to drop names on here or not--but yes it was kindersley transport--aka siemens group--the only reason they have a driver shortage is cause they treat their drivers and all employees like crap

[ralph]

You can mention names here...the moderators don't bite and if you do something wrong a moderator will "edit" it for you and then send you a friendly reminder of your violation. Just ask...I better not say.

So JS Crawford went TU and Kindersley bought them/the assets, created Creek Bank and when the union was brought in Kindersley closed Creek Bank. Is that it in a nut shell?

[Franx]

How long ago did Creekbank close??

[ralph]

How long ago did Creekbank close??

Dec11 /09 is what i read.

[canuck in da truck]

yes kindersly---well siemens group bought js crawford ---then kinda ran it into ground--laid off everybody but dock city and few dedicated northeast drivers in july--then finally closed it up dec 11--shop is still open does work for sunbury and others who rent out yard space---still waiting for my holiday pay and such

[ralph]

If you were there 11 years you must have worked under the JS Crawford organization before Siemens then.

What's the relationship with the union and closure?

[canuck in da truck]

at an employee meeting with head of hr of siemens --she flat out told us that if there was ever an inkling of union starting that they would flat out shut down the company first---no i didnt work for js the previous time was with another siemens companythen went to creekbank--at the previous company we got the same message word for word--union = closure --finally got my holiday pay and seperation pay today--after 6 months---not to sound to disgruntled tho--there were lots of good people working for them---and terry siemens is great---but there are also a lot of bottom feeders who would prostitute there own mom and be the first customer