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liner
02-15-2010, 09:03 PM
The following article was sent to me by another member and I would like the pro-union guys to read it and explain to me why anyone would be willing to lose everything they worked for by going on strike for this long!

Does common sense not have to take over sooner or later...or are these guys just so brain washed by their union that they are willing to risk everything,including their well paid jobs?






Striking steelworkers can’t make ends meet
After seven months on picket line, many visit Sudbury food bank
By KRISTINE OWRAM The Canadian Press
Sun. Feb 14 - 4:53 AM






SUDBURY, Ont. — Striking Vale Inco employee Rod Price says he’s "lost everything," and so have many of his colleagues.

"The banks are taking our houses, our vehicles. A lot of us are using the food bank, and as time goes on it’s getting worse," Price said, his words coming as puffs of steam through the holes in his balaclava on a frigid day on the picket line.

"Guys are upset, hurt, crying. They don’t know what to do with themselves."

More than 3,000 employees of nickel miner Vale Inco have been on strike since mid-July, and after seven months living off of $800 a month in strike pay, the repo man has come knocking.

"We’ve got people losing homes. We’ve got families breaking apart. We can’t make our payments," said worker Pat Digby, braving a wind chill of -25C to picket at the front gate of Vale Inco’s smelter in the Sudbury neighbourhood of Copper Cliff.

Price said he and some of his colleagues have looked for work elsewhere to sustain them during the strike, but no one wants to hire them because they fear they’ll quit as soon as the labour dispute is resolved.

"I’ve got 15 years in with Vale and I can’t turn my back on it now," Price said with a shrug. "So I hit the food banks once a month."

Sudbury Food Bank administrator Dan Xilon said usage is up by 30 per cent compared with a year ago, probably due to a combination of factors including the strike, the recession and the collapse of the region’s forestry industry.

Other workers are leaving Sudbury for good and finding work in the Alberta oil sands or other mining operations in northern Ontario.

The union is doing what it can to help workers out as the increasingly bitter strike drags on with no end in sight. An assistance centre at the union hall, which is open on Tuesdays and Thursdays and provides clothing and food to those in need, is quite busy these days, said Dave Gordon, financial secretary of United Steelworkers Local 6500, which represents striking Vale Inco workers in Sudbury.

However, the meagre assistance isn’t enough to stem the growing tide of frustration and anger among workers and the community as a whole.

Reports of violence and threats from both sides are serving to make things increasingly tense on the picket lines with the two sides blaming each other for the absence of negotiations since the strike began.

"You can only push people so far. When you can’t feed your kids, you can’t put food on the table, you can’t put clothing on them, they come home from school and they can’t participate in what’s going on, you think that’s good for a community?" Digby said.

The steelworkers say the company is trying to break the union through its use of non-striking union members and non-unionized contract employees to restart some operations. To date, Vale has restarted its Sudbury mill and smelter and is operating portions of its Coleman mine and Garson ramp. The company is also working to resume full production at Coleman as well as its Creighton mine.

Vale Inco spokesman Steve Ball said the company has no intention of undermining the union and wants the steelworkers to be "part of our successful future."

"But we can’t seem to find a way through this impasse with the steelworkers, and as a result we need to move forward and generate revenue to offset the cost and also finish nickel to supply our customers," Ball said.

At issue are proposals by Vale Inco to reduce a bonus tied to the price of nickel and to exempt new employees from its defined-benefit pension plan, moving them instead to a defined-contribution plan.

Workers complain that they shouldn’t have to give concessions to a company whose parent, Brazil-based Vale S.A., earned US$5.35 billion in 2009. This frustration was exacerbated when the other major mining company with operations in the Sudbury area, Xstrata Nickel, reached a labour agreement with its workers recently without having to resort to a strike.

But Ball said Vale’s Sudbury operations — formerly owned by Inco before it was bought by Vale for $19 billion in 2006 — need to be profitable without the help of its parent company, otherwise they could be shut down. The cost of keeping up with increasingly stringent environmental regulations and maintaining aging infrastructure means the company needs all the help it can get to stay profitable, he added.

"We have to generate that money here. Vale is not going to bail us out," Ball said.

More than 3,000 employees at Vale’s mill, smelter, refinery and six nickel mines in the Sudbury area have been on strike for seven months, along with their counterparts at Vale’s Port Colborne, Ont., refinery.

Workers at the company’s nickel-cobalt-copper mine in Voisey’s Bay, N.L. are also on strike, although the issues in that dispute are slightly different. For example, workers in Voisey’s Bay are already on a defined contribution pension plan.

bikerboy
02-15-2010, 09:29 PM
i know i would not want to stay on a strike anywhere near that long, i would have found a new job long before that.

ralph
02-15-2010, 09:41 PM
i know i would not want to stay on a strike anywhere near that long, i would have found a new job long before that.

Many employers won't hire these guys because the employers know as quick as the strike is over they are gone back to the mine.

bikerboy
02-15-2010, 10:00 PM
Many employers won't hire these guys because the employers know as quick as the strike is over they are gone back to the mine.

well that makes sense too

Franx
02-16-2010, 12:06 AM
Pretty sure this was posted here at one point....
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/679226

Mercenary
02-16-2010, 12:06 AM
Well Liner it is obvious that the company and the union are not willing to negotiate their respective positions. They are too far apart to come to a consensus.

Some people feel that it is worth it to risk everything in order to maintain what they have already though a contract. This one is particularly difficult because their company already has a tidy profit and there are similar businesses that have come to an agreement without the need to strike. So what immediately comes to my mind is the question what is wrong with this business that it cannot make money while others are? Looks like it comes down to inept management again.

maan
02-16-2010, 12:46 AM
http://uniting-workers.net/our_issues/support_usw_striking_miners_at/the_facts_of_the_vale_inco_dis.aspx

1-800-bigtruck
02-16-2010, 10:17 AM
I think I would be very pizzed of if I lost every thing I had worked for over the years. I'm not pro or anti union .

At issue are proposals by Vale Inco to reduce a bonus tied to the price of nickel and to exempt new employees from its defined-benefit pension plan, moving them instead to a defined-contribution plan.

If that's the only reason they're on strike , why aren't they back to work ,
A bonus is a bonus and just that , lots of companies have gotten out of the profit sharing over the years ,
and the 2 tier system seems to be the norm at a lot of places now a days .the current employees aren't loosing anything there
I don't know much about this strike ,(and couldn't care less) but sounds like that either side wants to give in ,
maybe if it hasn't been allready done , the union members should be getting the national more involved

liner
02-16-2010, 01:40 PM
http://uniting-workers.net/our_issues/support_usw_striking_miners_at/the_facts_of_the_vale_inco_dis.aspx


I assume you have sent in your donation Maan.I'm sorry but I will not be making a donation at this time.

maan
02-16-2010, 02:12 PM
I'm quite shocked to hear.

buzzy
02-16-2010, 04:17 PM
I assume you have sent in your donation Maan.I'm sorry but I will not be making a donation at this time.


Un-like Liner, I've already given my $.02. :10_1_137[1]:

maan
02-16-2010, 11:27 PM
The following article was sent to me by another member and I would like the pro-union guys to read it and explain to me why anyone would be willing to lose everything they worked for by going on strike for this long!

Does common sense not have to take over sooner or later...

That's up to the members to decide.

liner
02-16-2010, 11:52 PM
That's up to the members to decide.

Yes I agree its the members decision,but when they make close to $30 hr I think common sense is lacking when they go out on strike for that long!

maan
02-17-2010, 12:56 AM
A majority vote rules on issues raised.

buzzy
02-17-2010, 08:24 AM
A majority vote rules on issues raised.

If a person makes a voluntary effort to commit to a decision, then it is their responsibility to suffer the consequences of their actions.

A vote was made to voluntarily go out on strike. Why should anyone else have to provide support?

maan
02-17-2010, 11:59 AM
If a person makes a voluntary effort to commit to a decision, then it is their responsibility to suffer the consequences of their actions.

A vote was made to voluntarily go out on strike. Why should anyone else have to provide support?

You don't have to but many do voluntarily, other Unions for example. It depends a great deal on what the issues and motivations are. This strike has a National and International scope though for the other side, they argue it is nothing more than the strikers vs Vale and doesn't even involve Sudbury.

maan
02-17-2010, 01:52 PM
Features : Buyout Or Sellout? (http://www.gfmag.com/archives/35-35-november-2007/992-features-canada-for-sale.html)


The buyout boom of Canadian companies is stirring intense controversy and throwing a harsh spotlight on the role of corporate executives.

As the selloff of Canada’s biggest and best-known companies reaches record levels, politicians, labor leaders and even some business executives are accusing the country’s corporate elite of sacrificing Canada’s future for the sake of short-term gains. As well as stirring some deep concerns throughout the country, the unprecedented transfer of assets out of Canada threatens to become an explosive issue for Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s pro-business, pro-American minority government in the next federal election—which some pundits predict could be called before the end of the year as the Conservatives sink in popularity polls.

<snip>

Buyouts Prompt Unrest

The transition to new ownership, whatever the origin of the buyer, is rarely smooth. For example, when Brazil’s CVRD acquired nickel producer Inco in 2006, negotiations to sign the first two collective agreements with management resulted in strikes. “They came in hard-nosed,” says Ken Neumann, national director for Canada of the United Steelworkers, which represents 75,000 mill and mine employees. He worries that when cyclical industries like the ones he represents enter a period of recession, foreign owners will have no qualms about shutting down capacity and slashing jobs in Canada if it suits their global objectives. “We’ll be raising hell to no end about that,” he says, hinting at future confrontations.

Meanwhile, Neumann is getting used to the fact that his country no longer has a domestically owned steel producer. Stelco, the last holdout, was bought by US Steel for $1.1 billion in August 2007. “I’m very concerned that Canada has lost its main manufacturing industry,” says Neumann. “If you get rid of your manufacturing base, you end up with a service economy.”

Mercenary
02-17-2010, 02:43 PM
Geez...don't get me started on the selling of our national assets to foreign interests. I am of the opinion we should all go 'Chavez' and kick the *******s off our soil.

The government should own about 5-10 mining companies specifically there to mine gold and other precious minerals for our coffers. They could then use the wealth generated by the mines to put back into healthcare and infrastructure and keep some around 'just in case'.

There is no way we should also have to pay the world price for oil and natural gas. These are our resources after all. The Canadian market isn't all that big that they couldn't save some of that precious resource for us and sell it at a much lower price than world price.

Now I know there are many other factors out there that dictate the prices....free trade being one of them...tariffs and other punitive measures meant to keep prices artificially inflated. My point is that we need to protect our resources for Canadians and our kids.

maan
02-17-2010, 03:01 PM
As I understand the issues, Vale made a profit of ~ 4 bil from the mines alone over a 2 year period prior to the strike, and that in the worst of times.

They want massive changes along with cutbacks and the Unions position was status quo. They released their contract offer to the media for all to see, which is unusual, and took the position that it must be agreed to as a starting point before negotiations could go any further.

They have said, ~ ' it's like this' and if you don't like it, we are moving ahead with replacement workers.

Big problem with whatever position taken is Vale has clout and dough on a level that Inco never had ..soooo, here we are with no end in sight.

liner
02-17-2010, 06:18 PM
As I understand the issues, Vale made a profit of ~ 4 bil from the mines alone over a 2 year period prior to the strike, and that in the worst of times.

.


I've never understood what business it was of the unions as to how much money a company makes.If these guys were making $10 hr I could understand them being ******** at Vale for making a huge profit,but they are making $30 hr plus benefits, which is not to shabby and now they have the balls to ask for support!!

Where is their union now with the millions of dollars they collected in dues from these 3000 workers over the years?I'm sure the fat cats running the union aren't living on $800 a month,because if they were this strike would have ended long ago.

ralph
02-17-2010, 08:05 PM
As I understand the issues, Vale made a profit of ~ 4 bil from the mines alone over a 2 year period prior to the strike, and that in the worst of times.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, "Profit isn't a word you can't say in church/at mass on Sunday"

If Vale's (or any other publicly traded corporation's) profits were so great the union and their membership/employees should have bought shares and reaped the rewards. Don't wizz and moan about corporate profits, benefit from them!

Mercenary
02-17-2010, 09:31 PM
Really what you have here is a company that is trying to take advantage of the economic climate. Vale is trying to cry poor when it really isn't. They are already rich and are trying to get richer on the backs of their workers. Not really a new concept today but I do wonder why some of you here like the idea of rich people getting wealthier off of the backs of workers.

Face it. Vale wouldn't make any money without the work force. You cry foul when a union member wants a bit more of the pie but think it is perfectly acceptable for the 'fat cat' company boys to make even more money by taking it away from the workers.

maan
02-18-2010, 03:19 AM
Many employers won't hire these guys because the employers know as quick as the strike is over they are gone back to the mine.
Nevertheless, many get other jobs, some intending to go back, others not.

maan
02-18-2010, 03:48 AM
I've never understood what business it was of the unions as to how much money a company makes.If these guys were making $10 hr I could understand them being ******** at Vale for making a huge profit,but they are making $30 hr plus benefits, which is not to shabby and now they have the balls to ask for support!!

Where is their union now with the millions of dollars they collected in dues from these 3000 workers over the years?I'm sure the fat cats running the union aren't living on $800 a month,because if they were this strike would have ended long ago.

How well a Co is doing or even decisions made come into the position a Union will take regarding a strike, the position taken was status quo. Unions can also have diff relationships with an employer, some are willing to open the books, discuss future plans etc, others not.

You go on strike and the deal in a Union shop is strike pay in a given amount (200/wk here) and that only if you man the picket lines as required.

The local president here gets strike pay like anyone else and chose that even having the option of retiring with a full pension

maan
02-18-2010, 04:01 AM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/share-of-foreign-investment-slipping/article1445123/


Canada has been losing its attractiveness as a destination for foreign investment compared with other countries and is in no danger of being “hollowed out” by takeovers, a new report argues.

While some of Canada's best-known companies have been targets of foreign buyers in recent years, the country's overall share of global foreign investment has been falling for decades, harming prosperity by slowing the transfer of new technologies, said a study issued Tuesday by the Montreal-based Institute for Research on Public Policy.

maan
02-18-2010, 04:18 AM
I've never understood what business it was of the unions as to how much money a company makes.If these guys were making $10 hr I could understand them being ******** at Vale for making a huge profit,but they are making $30 hr plus benefits, which is not to shabby and now they have the balls to ask for support!!

The other Co in Sudbury Xstrata (Swiss) - Falconbridge vs CAW just recently settled a collective agreement with small gains and no strike, though they did shut down some mines prior and there were layoffs. Timmins was hit hard.

red_5.0
02-18-2010, 06:08 AM
If these guys were making $10 hr I could understand them being ******** at Vale for making a huge profit,but they are making $30 hr plus benefits, which is not to shabby and now they have the balls to ask for support!!

Where is their union now with the millions of dollars they collected in dues from these 3000 workers over the years?I'm sure the fat cats running the union aren't living on $800 a month,because if they were this strike would have ended long ago.

I'm sure this is why some at Challenger are trying to become unionized. A company highway driver doesn't make much more than $10/hour after all time put into the job. Anyone agree?

Don't those 'millions of dollars' go into a pension plan and other benefits? Who pays those benefits for retired workers that need to draw more than the $800/month that Canada Pension pays....or do truck drivers not deserve better?

Seems like liner has some of the answers but can't see the big picture....Of course the union is not a perfect solution, but a pension of some sort is not a bad thing, nor is protecting benefits in a contract. In both cases, Challenger/Inco seem to be clawing back from the workers that make their business' profits.

MHL1965
03-06-2010, 01:37 AM
First off, if the boys up in Sudbury think being on strike is worth it to em, then god bless em, go to it. The company obviously made a lot of money because they don't need those guys for a while.

I dunno, I do know this much. If employers were so nice and gentle, how would people, who generally have a distrust of unions ever sign cards? MAybe becuase some employers are D!cks? Liner, trust me, they are out there...but of course, you just believe in your own fairy tales.

Personally, I would not be in a union if I had a choice, but if the union could get me the raise I cant get on my own, and put the boss in his place because he is a jerk, then I will listen to the union organizer now wont I?

Mule Bleue
05-30-2010, 03:06 PM
[QUOTE=red_5.0;29457]I'm sure this is why some at Challenger are trying to become unionized. A company highway driver doesn't make much more than $10/hour after all time put into the job. Anyone agree?


Dam rite that i'm agree with you, but it seem to be very difficult for some blind person to understand the BIG COMMON SENSE. In 1975 a driver for Smith Transport , doing switches to Belleville,On 5 nite a week was earning $55,000.00 a year plus benefit, pension etc. Today in 2010 we are still doing $55,000.00 less benifit with NO pension plan.+ we are away from home an no really family life, more stupids rules an more IDIOTS to apply all those new stupids rules, with more peoples in the office tio complicated our life! Then some IDIOTS wonder why Teamsters is knocking at the carriers door!!!