I'm impressed

[ratfink]

This is impressing, you guys first get the challenger thread out of the "drivers round table", ok the subject was touchy and everybody seems to want to protect challenger.
Ok it was about union and why not make another forum just for unions...blablabla. Whatever the reason... youre right! OK? doin fine up to now? I agree.

My opinion, (can I have that? can I express it??) I guess it was a way to hide it a bit and restrain or limit the number of participants to a minimum.

The ones who were expressing theyre problems and how they were going to "try" to fix them were quickly ridiculized by a couples.
That was ok, but if you come up and say "we all fu...up and heres why" then all of a sudden the thread is locked up.
Of course if we all fuc...up and I explain why I include the older generation as beeing responsible, (hey I'm part of it and again, it's MY opinion, ok? I can still have that???) then it seems to become a personal attack. I read some say it was an pile of crap, Ok I dont mind it's your opinion and you have the rights to NOT AGREE with me.

Now I see that a couples of threads are locked pretty fast, again nobody wants to hear the real reason why we the otr drivers are in a mess.

We can debate about it, but if when you lock it up asap when an opinion is expressed.... thats not debating anymore, it's censorship!
by the way, censorship is one of the problem in OTR, who is talking FOR the drivers?
Take any media, magazines, TV radio, anytime you hear a documentary, who is interviewed? the company's mouthpiece, the spokeperson.
Most of the times to demonstrate how wonderfull the job is or to show off a new technology.

What's left? forums like this one where we are suppose to express ourselves.
Again, it's getting to be the same story.
Examples from the past keep coming up telling us how hard we worked how tuff it was blabla bla and the newbies should thank us and shut up and do the work like we did.

I have a question, this trucking site, is it for the drivers or companies?

[buzzy]

I locked the thread because of the following post and the way it was leading the replies:


ratfink
Member Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: in the truck
Posts: 239


Re: Challenger thread locked...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now stop this , you gonna scare me.
I'll repeat what I've been saying all along.

Hey I can do that big lettering tooo, watch this !!!
It has nothing to do with unions!

I'm talking about what truck drivers are doing to each other.

I'm talking about drivers who just because they dont agree with others are going to ridicule the one who are trying to help each other.

I'm talking about the guys (or gals) who are ready to work for next to nothing in order to get an edge.

I'm talking about truck drivers or ex drivers who cant and wont admit that if we are in this mess...they are partly responsible, we are responsible.

And guess what? I'm the first in line to admit that I screwed up.
Yes we worked hard,
Yes we did the work.
Yes it was a hard environement to work in and we still did it.

But since deregulation, while we were working our rear end off, some others were building companies and they USED us to do it.

It's ok they worked hard at it and I applaud the one's who were successfull, but here's the catch

WE FORGOT TO ASK TO GET A DECENT PAY! AND SOME OF THEM ABUSED
is that hard to understand?

It take balls to admit this but as long we dont see where is the problem.
we are going to stay in our mud hole and our trade that we love so much will become less and less respected.

WHAT IS SO PERSONAL ABOUT THAT?
IT'S THE COLLECTIVITY THAT SCREWED UP AND ALL I'M TRYING TO DO IS POINT IT OUT.
DEAL WITH IT BOYS




You wanna complain, do t where it will do the most good. Badger your MP and your MPP, your local newspapers, actually show up at industry provided seminars relating to the subject.

You can't accomplish anything preaching to the Choir. All that comes of it is instituting desent in the ranks.

The only thing "blowing smoke" accomplishes is pollution of the atmosphere.

[buzzy]

All public forums are just that. PUBLIC. They are free to be read by whoever wants to.
Taking a thread in a direction it was intended will get it moved or locked.

Read the site charter.

[bikerboy]

My opinion, (can I have that? can I express it??) I guess it was a way to hide it a bit and restrain or limit the number of participants to a minimum.



I am not sure of the reason , since its not really hidden anyway, anyone who clicks new posts can see all new posts no matter what forum they are in.

i do agree with you, and enjoy your point of view

[Nothings_Shocking]

an opinion in a public forum should be allowed no matter what the content unless it's racist or threatening of other members....i think some of you moderators shouldnt be so quick to lock or delete threads (this is comeing from someone who moderates in other forums), we're all adults on here expressing opinions.....it's only etalk people should get there panties in a bunch so easily

[ratfink]

I locked the thread because of the following post and the way it was leading the replies:



You wanna complain, do t where it will do the most good. Badger your MP and your MPP, your local newspapers, actually show up at industry provided seminars relating to the subject.

You can't accomplish anything preaching to the Choir. All that comes of it is instituting desent in the ranks.

The only thing "blowing smoke" accomplishes is pollution of the atmosphere.

What was wrong with that???

I wasnt talking about unions, talk to mp's mpp's doesnt help, and who tells you I didnt?

If WE, each person that is part of the trucking community cant even tell ourselves what's wrong with our trade... we are in serious trouble.
We are gagged and gagging ourselves.

We might as well not only pay for the Vaseline pot but also put ourselves the sand in it huh?

I know it can be a bit controversial when I say that US old geezers (notice I include myself in there???) fu...up, but dont tell me my opinions are crock of bull crap, debate me and itell me where I'm wrong. If you can convince me that I'm wrong, I'll gladly change my mind.


You can call it whining, crying or whatever you want,I dont care..
I call it MY OPINION. I respect yours so can I ask for at least the same respect???

[buzzy]

I didn't censor anything. I moved it because it broke direction and headed away from the intention of the original post.

:flyswat[1]:

[Mercenary]

I think most drivers cannot agree with what is wrong with trucking today. Some have it really good and are doing well for themselves and some have it appallingly bad but cannot see a way out of their situation.

I think it has to do alot with your personality. IF you are the laid back type who doesn't get worked up about things then OTR will probably work just fine for you. Unfortunately I fall in the "Gets shockingly pizzed over the slightest thing" category and OTR will likely give me a coronary.

I really have to do something about that.....

[bikerboy]

I don't see how anyone working OTR, can not be upset about all the unpaid time involved,
fueling , pre trip, waiting in line at the border, waiting inside customs at the border, waiting for X ray at the border, waiting on dispatch to you either give you a load or let the driver go home, waiting on customers to load or unload the trailer, wasting time at a scalehouse, stuck in a huge traffic jam, sitting because a road is closed, sitting because of a breakdown,

Many companies expect a drive to do all that for free, or they will pay a small flat rate per pickup, per drop, or per border crossing, and sometimes if your lucky they will pay a driver for sitting a day or more waiting on a load or after a break down.

We have the technology these days to track every hour a driver is actually working in the day, so why not pay hourly for it? instead of screwing the drivers and saying " that time is included in the mileage rate"
well how about you deduct that from the mileage rate and pay me hourly for it instead, or better get outlaw mileage pay and pay ON Duty as hourly pay!

Trucks are hugely inefficient, alot of time is wasted sitting, if its not the drivers fault he is not moving, other then sleeping or two short breaks per day, he needs to be paid, or sent home, since after all, it not his choice to be stuck away from home sitting twiddling his thumbs for free.

How many factorys or any other business pay employees piece work, and expect them to stay at work waiting for more work to come in? not many people would stick around, most would just go home.

But drivers don't get the option of just heading home when their is no work for the day.

No wonder young people don't want in.

[Blue Dodger]

Excellent post BB... Well said.
As for closing the Challenger thread, my opinion is that it should have been done a long time ago. Stating facts and debating each others opinion is fine, when it gets personal and readers are slamming one another it's not pretty. I got sick of it and quit reading it. Almost decided to leave the forum.
Thanks for shutting that forum down and to everyone that posts here, thanks for the many interesting topics and opinions..

[MHL1965]

I was on the receiving end of a few Liner attacks, but I find it humourous they shut things down because Ratfink got a little exercised....

Oh well, the debate continues, and it is a thankless job moderating this mess...

I will say this tho.

Bikerboy, you are preaching to my choir brother. It is the reason I made the decision to get out of trucking. My wife couldn't believe the amount of BS I put up with in this business, and the amount of back stabbing and character assasination I have endured with my old co-workers and company says to me that the atmosphere in the industry is rotten. I miss the beautiful mornings with my Pilot coffee running through some place in the US or running across the 401 heading to Quebec, but I don't miss the unpaid time at docks, stupidity of the MTO and other jurisdictions, and the ever increasing ways my employer (no matter who he was) was trying to trim money out of my pay check while wanting to ask me to work longer.

It is capitalism all right. They demanded too much for the supply in dollars they were willing to offer, so I walked away....

[ratfink]

I find it humourous they shut things down because Ratfink got a little exercised....



What? they shut the thread down beause of ME.

Geeezzz I just said what was on my mind, didnt think I would upset people that much LOL

Upset liner was ok, he had a job to do.

[Mule Bleue]

Well if what Buzzy did by closing the Cmf thread about the Union, if you guys don't call that CENSORSHIP then you really really make me wonder. It is censorship, I don't think that adressing a strong position whether you're pro or con it doesn't need to be censor, no need to close it. We have seen that in Québec in the 1955, Duplessis years. I don't think that in 2010 even if we are not agree each other that censorship is usefull. YOU HOUU peoples are not stupid they can make judgement by their self. I'm very deceived that it have been close, even if it was not solving problem at the moment it was at least make the peoples to talk about it, that is a start to find a solution in this industry. By shut it down is like to put a cover on something that some people prefer to denied rather than see it an face it...

[Nothings_Shocking]

Did it ever cross any ones mind that maybe the thread was locked because it had grown to large and it was time to start another thread. Once you get up above 30 pages it becomes a little difficult to separate the he said/she said from the facts.


No offense but thats a load of crap.... i moderate on a forum where some threads have hundreds of pages even up to a thousand. As long as people stay on the topic of the thread all moderators have to do is make sure people follow the basic forum rules wich are



Feel free to speak your opinion, also be prepared to hear another member's or moderator's opinion in response. It may not be in agreement to your opinion, but that is what makes discussion.

We ask that you keep insulting & derogatory comments, personal attacks on members, name calling, bigotry, swearing and porn out of discussion, or please be prepared to have your post edited or deleted at the discretion of administration.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws

[Mule Bleue]

I think that the Cmf thread was a good one, no need to close it, opinion where strong but fair on both side. If some peoples think that there,s was personal attack that's their problems. I still think that when administrater close it down it is CENSORSHIP, an that was unfair.

[ratfink]

You have your opinion which you are allowed to voice --- others have another opinion. That said you did have one point ------ As long as people stay on the topic of the thread ----- Not drift off topic to bash another member

Dave

Dont want to pisss you off but you have got into the bashing yourself,

Your quote, "You need to get the optic nerve connected to your backsside checked to see if there is a way to relieve your sh$$ty outlook on the industry as a whole"
Another member even asked you to PM me your comments.


I had expressed MY opinion and you obviously did not agree with me.
That's ok I dont care.

I dont agree with some of your opinions but I wont ask you to have your optic nerves connections checked.
I'll debate it, but wont insult you.
So as you can see it can be easy to drift off a bit huh?

Now returning to the closure of the CMF Teamsters thread.
I'm sorry but I think it was locked to protect CMF, simple as that.
Yeah we are allowed to continue the debate elsewhere but as long as the CMF word is not in there, it will be allowed.
It's the same as when a company truck has a accident, the names will be covered to protect the company's image.
And we all know how important the image is to CMF.

And like Nothing shocking said, I've seen other discussions go on much longer. plus a discussion can and will turn into something else a lot of time, this is part of discussing.


My opinion.

[liner]

Your quote, "You need to get the optic nerve connected to your backsside checked to see if there is a way to relieve your sh$$ty outlook on the industry as a whole".


I believe you are confusing Bookworm with Buzzy on this quote.

[ratfink]

I believe you are confusing Bookworm with Buzzy on this quote.

Youre right liner, I'm sorry Bookworm. :36_1_51[1]:

[buzzy]

I'm offended! How can anyone confuse Bookworm and Me unless they are prone to jumping to conclusions.:cook[1]:

[ratfink]

Maybe I wanted to offend you... payback!

[ratfink]

Thanks for the apology Ratfink ------ just goes to show that while we may not agree with each other at least we can be civil with each other.

Dave

Youre welcome, That's what I keep saying.