pro union or not?

[ratfink]

Ok I noticed that the thread I started on overtime have turned into an anti union thing.
My intentions were not about union but to inform drivers what were theyre rights and where to look for it. (labour canada) about OVERTIME not union.

So why not start a thread asking "are you pro union or not?"

give us a reason why union are such an evil or why it would help the industry.

Again I'll repeat what I've been saying all along,
If you have any other solution to OTR problems, I'm all ears.


Everywhere we look or read we see comments by drivers that everybody is fed up.
So we do have a problem.

[Mercenary]

I am pro union simply because it can protect the average worker from unscrupulous supervisors and managers. There usually are added benefits such as recall rights and increased monetary compensations that obviously go along with being part of a union.

However I can also see the downside of them too. The argument that they protect the lazy worker is valid in some cases AND they can have too much power over the day to day operation of the business.

IF companies paid their employees fairly and treated them with respect then there would be no need for unions in today's society.

[BlackIce]

I am positively pro-union given the completely arrogant and somewhat ignorant attitudes displayed by management and owners who continue to treat drivers as though they are the bottom of the food chain and their licence is not worthy or deserving to be respected as it should with pay for all hours away from home.

Would anyone dare to tell firefighters that they only get paid while they are fighting a fire and not paid for being at the station awaiting their next call?
Of course not. So why should drivers be treated any differently, with no compensation and shown less respect for their time spent waiting for management to send them to their next emergency / urgent/ critical response.

When I'm made aware of numerous instances where companies are offering wages that are no more than what drivers were making 25 years ago, there is something seriously wrong with their lack of respect for the driver's time and licence.

As a side note I will post this link about how troubling the lack of pay has become: LINK (http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2010/09/09/Driver-shortage-slows-freight-services/UPI-40751284053365/)

[ralph]

I really don't care because if I can't resolve my issues then I pack my toys and go play elsewhere! I have worked in both enviornments, one issue I had with the union enviornment was that the mutt beside me that did less than me got paid the same. Not equitable in my estimation. In a non-union enviornment when that happened I told my supervisor I needed MORE money and could prove my greater productivity. I got the raise.

Both enviornments have their merits.

[Maxx]

I don't care for unions because its one more level of people telling me what I can and cannot do.

I've had some bad experiences with employers and even worse ones when forced to join a union. Screw me and I simply move on.

One of the things that really bothered me about the last union job I had, was the bumping provisions that forced me to take a part time position when I had taken the initiative to contact a manufacturer and secure 2 more trips a week for that lane. I had taken a 3 day a week job and made it into a 5 day a week job. The company went to bat for me but the union won in the end. Sure the union protected the rights of a senior member but at my expense. The same union wrote me up for washing my truck during some work to rule period. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to wash my truck, there were no notices in my pigeon hole, no phone calls. No one had the balls to come to me and say I did wrong. Just a complaint on my file signed by some guy I'd never met. At least I talked to people who worked for the company whereas the union just took my money and did SFA.

I really don't like unions.

I prefer to work for small specialized carriers made up of primarily owner/operators.

[ratfink]

IF companies paid their employees fairly and treated them with respect then there would be no need for unions in today's society.

After 35 years + in the business, it wont happen, I'll even add that the level of arrogance has highly rased lately.

[ratfink]

I don't care for unions because its one more level of people telling me what I can and cannot do.

I've had some bad experiences with employers and even worse ones when forced to join a union. Screw me and I simply move on.

One of the things that really bothered me about the last union job I had, was the bumping provisions that forced me to take a part time position when I had taken the initiative to contact a manufacturer and secure 2 more trips a week for that lane. I had taken a 3 day a week job and made it into a 5 day a week job. The company went to bat for me but the union won in the end. Sure the union protected the rights of a senior member but at my expense. The same union wrote me up for washing my truck during some work to rule period. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to wash my truck, there were no notices in my pigeon hole, no phone calls. No one had the balls to come to me and say I did wrong. Just a complaint on my file signed by some guy I'd never met. At least I talked to people who worked for the company whereas the union just took my money and did SFA.

I really don't like unions.

I prefer to work for small specialized carriers made up of primarily owner/operators.


The thing with unions is that some ground rules are laid out for everybody.

It's not because you became a salesperson for your carrier that you will be exempted from the rules or conventions signed by both parties.

in the case you are describing, the rules established to protect senority was enforced.

the company "went to bat for you?" it's nice of them but I suspect that they knew too well that they had to respect the contract with theyre employees.

[MrMeaner]

Pro Union or Not?

After 20+ years working in factories both union and non union I’m neither for nor against a union.

It’s my personal experience that it all depends on the company you work for. One of the first companies I worked for was non union and treated and paid their employees very well. I got tired of getting laid off so moved on to a (CAW) union job. The first 12-13 years there were great. We had a (Local) owner that took care of his employees because he didn’t have to take care of the stakeholders. So with this guy running the shop although we were union for the most part we didn’t need it.

Well it got to a point where he had to sell and we were bought out by an international corporation. From there everything went downhill. We were bought and sold 3 times in the last 6 years of operation before finally closing shop due to bankruptcy. Let it be known there were no financial troubles when we had the local owner, but once the corporations took over and had to pay their backers before paying bills we made no money.

I don’t know the rules in the rest of North America but here in Ontario under the Bankruptcy law the owners and secured creditors are paid off before the employees. That’s if there is any money is left over.

Under our union contract we were protected by Seniority, Closure, Relocation and severance pay clauses (my rate was 2 ½ weeks pay for every year I was there). After 18 years at this company when the doors closed I got nothing. No RSP, No vacation pay (company spent the money) and no severance pay. Under the Ontario bankruptcy law severance pay is not payable due to employees not being a secured creditor unless money left over after liquidation.

Do I blame the union for what happened? Not at all, but I do think they could have been better prepared as I’m sure we were not the first company to claim bankruptcy.

So from now on no matter where I work union or not, so long as I make enough money to survive on and I’m happy doing what I’m doing where I’m doing it I’ll stick with it

[Pipeman]

I really don't care because if I can't resolve my issues then I pack my toys and go play elsewhere! I have worked in both enviornments, one issue I had with the union enviornment was that the mutt beside me that did less than me got paid the same. Not equitable in my estimation. In a non-union enviornment when that happened I told my supervisor I needed MORE money and could prove my greater productivity. I got the raise.

Both enviornments have their merits.Three years ago, I negotiated a CLAC agreement for Pioneer. In the cintract ,I had a clause that by meeting certain criteria, some employees could be paid higher than the rates in the agreement.

ie; Senority, Experience, Productivity and Image. Presentation to the customer that is. Turn your hat around and pull up your pants and present a proper image to the customer and your co-workers.

[ralph]

Would the Teamsters be open to such an arrangement? Why a CLAC agreement and not a Teamster? What is the difference in remuneration between the two contracts?

[Pipeman]

Would the Teamsters be open to such an arrangement? Why a CLAC agreement and not a Teamster? What is the difference in remuneration between the two contracts?Rates are about the same but the benefits with the Teamsters are much higher. Pioneer went CLAC because Midwest, North American and Ledcor pipeline contractors are all CLAC.

[liner]

ie; Senority, Experience, Productivity and Image. Presentation to the customer that is. Turn your hat around and pull up your pants and present a proper image to the customer and your co-workers.


Now that is the way it should be. Paying the lazy unproductive guys the same rate as the good workers is one of the reasons I have no use for unions.

[Pipeman]

This was 2008 Rates.


Read Item 1 under general Rules.


SCHEDULE "A"
CLASSIFICATIONS & RATES OF PAY

Classification Hourly Rate Vacation Pay (6%) Health Fund RSP Education Fund Total
Bed Tandem 28.00 1.68 1.15 1.05 0.03 31.91
Winch Tractor 25.00 1.50 1.15 1.05 0.03 28.73
Winchless Tractor 23.00 1.38 1.15 1.05 0.03 26.61
Picker 30.00 1.80 1.15 1.05 0.03 34.03
Town Driver 20.00 1.20 1.15 1.05 0.03 23.43


GENERAL RULES

1. The Employer shall have the option at his discretion only, to adjust the rate of pay upwards for select Drivers’ by taking into consideration one (1) or more of the following criteria: seniority, experience, performance, reliability.

2 The Employer shall have the option to flat rate special projects with the consent of the driver only and with notification to the union.


3. Except where otherwise herein provided, the hourly rate for drivers will be as stipulated above.

4. Employees designated as a lead hand will receive a premium of one dollar and fifty-cents ($1.50) per hour for all hours worked.

5. Part-time employees will receive the rate of pay for the classification under which they are working.

6. Subsistence Allowance – Each employee who is required to remain away from his place of domicile for sixteen (16) or more hours in any twenty-four (24) hour period, shall receive a subsistence allowance as listed below, for each twenty-four (24) hour period or portion thereof. In addition, the Company will pay for the reasonable cost of a hotel room upon presentation of a receipt.

Effective January 31, 2008 - Area 1 - $50.00

or, where camp facilities are available, the employee shall receive board and lodging at no cost to the employee.

7. Accommodation and Meal Allowance: In the event of a mechanical breakdown, the Employer will pay reasonable room expenses and fifty dollars ($50.00) meal allowance per day. Such payment will be made weekly.